Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#291614 12/14/2013 03:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
When I first started collecting likely I would have passed on this dagger due to its condition. But I was very attracted to this piece. The dagger is reputedly a vet souvenir from Sicily. The allies invaded Sicily in July 1943 of which my father was a participant a member of the 82nd Airborne Division - Company I - 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment. The 3rd battalion of the 504th attached to the 505th launched the first assault wave on Sicily July-9th-1943. The army collectors know this dagger was manufactured in 1935 and would recognize it as an initial production Alcoso slant with the type-1 Alcoso crossguard and first style maker mark. This dagger saw quite a bit of carrying time just think about the history this dagger witnessed being carried 8 years by a proud German officer. It must have belonged to someone very important. The professionally engraved Wappen on the rear of the crossguard is a miniature piece of art and is deserving of a research project. The whole dagger is constructed of a brass base metal even the hanger is brass base and has been permanently sewn to the dagger and been with this dagger for 78 years. The blade has suffered terribly over the years having been sharpened and is now dark with age. The initial Alcoso maker mark is visible under the crossguard facing the front the norm for these initial production Alcoso armyís. The dagger is a text book early Alcoso and exhibits nice hand detail work you would expect from a dagger of this vintage. If any one knows a researcher who specializes in wappen please let me know I would love nothing more then to put a name with this dagger.















Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
From someone that just bought a dented beauty like this myself based on brass and pure patina...I applaud you my friend! This dagger has alot of "FLAVOR", it is super early, has a killer Wappen engraved on it and has a beauty of a dark slant grip. one day you will be online or paging through a book and see this Wappen! After you come to terms with the condition on a piece like this, you can just kick back and appreciate the FLAVOR.... grin Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Kevin thanks my friend while condition is important to me History is more important and this dagger reeks of it. I love your way of thinking it sums up my feelings exactly. So do you think that is a knightís helmet right below the three flowers or a vase ?


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Tom, That is what I thought from the beginning, knights helmet..you can see the "mantlet" of the helmet below the head, the part that sat on the wearers chest and shoulders, love to look at it with a magnifying glass or loupe! Also from an "ACS" anomalies angle it is interesting to see another example of the wreath casting flaw here..starting to make me wonder if this indicates that this is a later example of the initial ACS product, where the mold is showing wear, possibly prompting the move to the brass based ACS 2nd guard? Just a theory. As you pointed out, who has seen this hanger treatment where the original hangers were sewn right to the rings?? I never have, quite interesting to me and shows the endless variations that can be seen in these pieces! Kevin

Last edited by heers68; 12/14/2013 02:01 PM.

It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Kevin Thanks itís hard to tell from the pictures but the wreath has been damaged in this spot. It was done after manufacture as the detail is completely gone in this spot with no attempt to cover it up with hand work.

army-alcoso-type1(2)-10.jpg (111.11 KB, 228 downloads)
army-alcoso-type1(2)-11.jpg (121.8 KB, 227 downloads)

Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Tom, this other example is the same way..quite the coincidence for there to be two and in the same spot on the wreath! Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Thanks to some help from a few collectors on another forum I believe this is the officer who owned the Alcoso. I suspected the dagger belonged to someone important but this exceeded my wildest expectations.

Sivers-Bio.jpg (119.28 KB, 140 downloads)

Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407
Likes: 1
F
Offline
F
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 407
Likes: 1
... nice.

First history, than condition'. We aren't stamp collectors.

Best;
Hermann

Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Hermann Thanks ! Love that thought - We would like to have both but sometimes that doesnít happen.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
Who would have though when you took a chance on this piece that it would have ended up being the property of a RK winning aristocrat!!?? CONGRATS on hitting it big, very interesting stuff Tom! Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 251
S
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 251
Wow Tom. Just love this story. To me this is what collecting is all about. it is the history. Congratulations. What a find. Rick


Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Thanks guys I was quite happy. The Italy connection doesnít match but that was just word of mouth by the dealer that the veteran spent some time in Sicily. Likely he picked up the dagger during the occupation or another campaign. Funny thing is the dealer (who got it from the family) that originally sold the dagger made no mention at all about the engraving on the back of the crossguard he is not a dealer that generally deals in German material just happened to pick this up.


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,228,783 SS Bayonets
1,729,029 Teno Insignia Set
1,091,268 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
SS Skull & Eagle, the Bad and the ugly.
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 02/03/2023 10:05 PM
ring of Hans Rattenhuber
by Evgeniy - 02/03/2023 06:02 PM
Winged Propeller Badge
by Hermanator - 02/01/2023 10:33 PM
SS Foreign Legion
by Hermanator - 01/31/2023 10:31 PM
Over the shoulder Eickhorn Army dagger
by Dion - 01/30/2023 07:26 PM
Latest New Posts
ring of Hans Rattenhuber
by ABTmRw - 02/04/2023 04:56 AM
SS Skull & Eagle, the Bad and the ugly.
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 02/03/2023 11:21 PM
R.A.Herder sword variants
by BretVanSant - 02/03/2023 08:58 PM
Very rare medal just 1,708 awarded
by Billy G. - 02/03/2023 05:55 PM
Kuno Ritter Nicker
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 02/03/2023 04:07 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,388
Posts325,229
Members7,289
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
1 members (polop), 73 guests, and 63 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5