|
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53
|
OP
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 53 |
See some beautiful pieces in the for sale forum growing cob webs on them. Years ago a nice dagger,helmet etc. wouldn't last an hour. Is the end near??
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33 |
Hi I do not believe that the GDC classified section (no offence) is indicative of the hobby in anyway. I have seen items sell on our classified far in advance of what they could be obtained at the Max or SOS. I have sold many items of high quality on the classifieds in the past few months at great losses. I have also picked up some bargains. No different than antique malls classified ads or flea markets. Items still appear to be doing okay on some sites and auction lists. The market is flat in a lot of areas but there are still items that command a premium...the biggest single factor is that this once great forum is a mere shell of what it once was in its heyday. No reflection on anyone as there are a myriad of reasons for its substantial demise....these are just the facts...so I think it rather that this site is "dying" as opposed to the "hobby" IMO cheers, Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,436
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 9,436 |
Ryan,
I agree with you. Years ago when I listed items on this site, they were gone within 24 hours.I always list my items below the average selling price and they still do not sell.. And of course you have the bottom feeders who wait for me to drop the price, and they still offer a crazy low price.Why list a rare item on this site, know one is going to buy it or they beat you up on the price.
I suppose a lot has to do with the economy, plus iam blowing off steam.Iam almost done doing the hotel buys, they are getting to slow, but then again I guess iam addicted to them, because iam doing one next week.
Just my two cents,
Bob
robert grant
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945 |
Simple answer $$$$$ 10-15 yrs. ago we were paying in some areas the same price as today and happy to get it.
As a second message I always though I would sell to fellow collectors or new blood but now I think it maybe easy to just sell to the big guys or consign. Even if offered at lower prices at times there's no bites or you just get beaten up.
Last edited by Ed Martin; 07/20/2013 05:28 PM.
You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 151 |
I agree with every post .
Ed Martin and Robert Grant , you two have hit it spot on. I know bgrelics has some super items at this time on the for sale (flag--$55.00) as one, but myself, after many years of collecting/buying/reselling/you just get tired.I tell fellow dealers at shows, *man, everyone has a bunch of everything nowadays, like, how many TR flags do you really need as stock?If you cannot sell what you havem whats the point of buying another one? *I tell them along those lines, if you get my drift on the state of TR militaria .Right now I have the chance to buy a nice groupimng of Civil War ground dug US belt buckles at give a way price, but hell, I cannot even sell the ones I have at a give away price, so why tie up money on extra excess inventory, right?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,174 Likes: 1
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,174 Likes: 1 |
I don't think the hobby is dying but GDC sure is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33 |
Hi Bob, I unfortunately am guilty of offering you a "lower price" from time to time...but I am also the victim of the same....though not from you...:) cheers, Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33 |
Hi Bob, I unfortunately am guilty of offering you a "lower price" from time to time...but I am also the victim of the same....though not from you...:) P.S. I have obtained some top shelf items from you in the past...I buy from you more often than I purchase from anyone else here.. cheers, Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,126 Likes: 1
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,126 Likes: 1 |
Hope you don't give up Bob ,,, People you buy from must think you are a lowballer as well, if they knew the resale situation, they'd know why.
I've had insulting offers for all types of things, I generally just turn the other cheek and don't even reply. We've probably had half a dozen "Is this hobby dying" threads the past couple years, the consensus usually is yes, things are down from what they were 5-10 years ago, all collectible markets took a hit with the deteriorating global economic situation ,,, But minty items and rare items hold their value, common and relic condition are down and will likely continue to fall.
Doug
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99 |
Doug is right in my opinion.
We have been in the longest depression/recession since the Nazis were strutting their stuff 80 years ago. Lots of people who had time and money for hobbies like ours are not so lucky today. Many collections went down in value just as the owners needed money. And, the weather has not helped either. I belong to forums for other hobbies and they are slow as well.
Our "for Sale" area has always attracted a lot of buyers and lookers, but they are usually knowledgeable and looking for a bargain, so it can be a tough sell. I see, as Doug notes, that top quality / rare items move quickly.
As to low-ball offers, they are a fact of life here and elsewhere, but if you get insults (other than the low price offer) Vern or I can settle those problems quickly. Contact us if this happens.
Lastly, for the first time in last years, I sense an uptick in sales of militaria. Nothing big, but noticeable.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 762 Likes: 1
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 762 Likes: 1 |
If you take into account the average age of the owners of big/high end collections, it's more than likely a lot of big collections will be sold in about 10 to 15 years. A lot of new collectors are needed to buy all these items. The question is if there will be enough collectors that are willing to pay the prices that we are used to now. Who knows .... If not I may finally be able to buy a mint GO or diplo dagger  . Danny
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,787 Likes: 41
|
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,787 Likes: 41 |
As to GDC dying, posts are down and responses are slow. But after 13 years on the web, we are still here and going strong. Our page views are over 2.5 million per month and show a steady increase. A lot of that activity is in the GDC Reference Galleries and people searching older threads for answers to their questions. Want to help the site? Then post! Share your collections and your knowledge. Show people what this hobby is all about. Attracting new collectors will only help you when you want to sell your collection in the future 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 544
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 544 |
As to GDC dying, posts are down and responses are slow. But after 13 years on the web, we are still here and going strong. Our page views are over 2.5 million per month and show a steady increase. A lot of that activity is in the GDC Reference Galleries and people searching older threads for answers to their questions. Want to help the site? Then post! Share your collections and your knowledge. Show people what this hobby is all about. Attracting new collectors will only help you when you want to sell your collection in the future +1!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
This hobby is like any economical cycle, it goes up and down.
Sometimes is stays asleep for a while and then a big surge happens.
It is pretty obvious that the inflated prices that we saw in the past were merely " controllable events ", fully created by dealers alike. I have to admit that they were very sucessfull but like anything else, it has to be done with caution but none of this was done and hence, somehow "killed" the hobby for now ...................... until the new "bubble" comes along.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
Higher priced and even rare examples seem to be the toughest to sell, even at bargain prices. They are still expensive and most cannot afford them, or just aren't willing to purchase. The lower priced and more common examples still seem to be selling reasonably well and some sell for more now than a few years ago. The market is fickle and varies from time to time. I have several items I would like to sell, but will opt to keep them if no reasonable price can be realized.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5 |
I find the good period rare stuff still sells as in Real damascus daggers and swords.. (REAL). I have multiple people who tell me to call them when I want to sell a piece out of the collection. Sold a 1938 damascus shooting prize with one call a month ago. Second one I have owned.(Raising funds for a rarer item.).
Even killer Imperial swords still sell but they must be knockouts!! I believe the common stuff just got overpriced..
Last edited by DAMAST; 07/21/2013 10:53 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99 |
I agree, DAMAST, I have similar offers with my SS daggers.
The same thing applies for NPEA, TeNo, HJ Leader, and other similar limited production daggers.
As for average SA/NSKK, Army, HJ, they are selling very slowly at the same price as 7-8 years ago. The ASKING price went up and came down but the transaction prices are looking steady from what I can see.
Now, for the annual question: Are there forums on other militaria related topics that we should consider?
Any other thoughts on improvements ?
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 544
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 544 |
The only topic IMO that isn't covered is gear and uniforms from other countries like the Red army, France, China, Poland etc. If there is a section for this let me know as I must be missing it....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,787 Likes: 41
|
|
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,787 Likes: 41 |
Because there is not a lot of activity here for other countries military, everything other than German, US, and Japanese are covered in the "Miscellaneous Militaria and Regalia Forum". Additional forums can easily be created if the interest is there
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
I'm sure I don't have the right contacts, nor marketing outlets. I have advertised here and elsewhere with very limited results. Most of the items are in "excellent" or better condition and are extremely well priced, but selling success has been limited, to say the least. No doubt, some are expensive, such as a "Himmler" SS, but it was still priced well. I also advertised an unissued AH cuf title at about $1000 below market price and no one was interested. I have a nice rare SS dagger on an auction now that is listed at some $2450 below a similar one on a dealer's site, but no bids after 3 weeks. Dealers seem to sell their wares like the proverbial hot cakes at high prices. It's hard to figure why a private seller offering like items at vastly lower prices rarely makes a sale. I have to disagree that army and LW prices have remained static fo the past several years. I have noticed most in nicer condition have gone up by a few hundred dollars. Of course, there are exceptions. Nicer SA's also have increased a bit in the past year, or so. But, nice SS daggers, even early ones, have dropped in price. Most early ones in nice condition list for around $3500, give or take. Minty and special issue examples list considerably higher. Before the "crash," excellent early SS daggers were usually listed at around $5000 to $6500 and rare makers considerably higher. Much is in the eye of the beholder and the collecting and selling circles one circulates in.has a lot of bearing on perceived value and marketing. I'm beginning to think maybe I should sell to dealers. Most would likely pay around the prices I advertise to the collecting community.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 544
|
|
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 544 |
Because there is not a lot of activity here for other countries military, everything other than German, US, and Japanese are covered in the "Miscellaneous Militaria and Regalia Forum". Additional forums can easily be created if the interest is there 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99 |
We once had a forum to discuss post WWII items such as DDR, Warsaw pact, Vietnam era. It did not get much interest.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33
|
|
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33 |
Grumpy email sent.......cheers, Ryan rsellick@rogers.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,133 Likes: 280 |
dying?? , hey, never say die!
Problem is,,there's no money out there! the interest is still there but we're all sick of paying over inflated prices from dealers and quick flip scam 'collectors'.
It will take some time but things will slowly come back.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,802 Likes: 13
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,802 Likes: 13 |
I never did look at my collection as an investment and never will. No way will anyone give me what it's worth at any given time. I collect from some internal desire.
Time and circumstances change priorities as we go down the winding road.
I dug my heels in at what I felt were exhorbitant prices years back. I do pick up an occassional piece from a couple of sites that aren't out to squeeze a dime. Daggers and most medals and badges have been out of my budgeted desirability for some time.
But that internal desire is still there. Not dead. Yet.
Nice to see you back online Gaspare.
--dj--Joe
<BR>
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 254
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 254 |
I share Joe's perspective regarding my collection as an investment. I do it because it gives me pleasure. However, given the cost of a collection, one does see it as a part of ones estate. My opinions follow and apologize in advance for getting on my soapbox..
Militaria as an investment is not as fungible and liquid compared to a security. Less people want to buy it than say, stock. It occupies a position in one's portfolio such as art. A key to ensuring militaria weathers the cyclicity common in all markets is to buy only the best pieces, say top 20% of the market. Values of top quality pieces are less volitile than common ones. Better to save your money and buy one or two high quality items than amass a collection of common, average pieces. In a down cycle, such as now, you could be left holding the bag if you must sell. At the end of the day, an item is only worth what someone is willing to give you at the time you decide to sell. Harsh perhaps but it is realistic.
Is the Hobby Dying? IMO no. However, it is going through a market correction. Those who bought when prices were higher than they are now, such as myself, may be disappointed if you must sell today. Just like securities, don't panic when the market drops. Don't sell at a loss if you don't have to. Wait for the upswing if you can and it will. Timing of these corrections in collectables traditionally mimic the economy and stock market but tends to lag. Anyone know what the Dow closed at Friday? Hang in there, prices will begin to grow again.
Lastly, why do some dealers get high prices for their items when an individual can't? People pay for their expertise (deserved or not). They have a global distribution network, advertising and reputation. Same for auction houses. I for one have paid a premium for what I considered is added value by using certain dealers. Given the increasing quality of reproductions, the new collectors entering the hobby often are more comfortable and feel they won't be taken advantage of if they do business with well known dealers. As for the high prices some dealers have on their items, they are not trying to rip people off. They are business people. They can ask anything they want. They themselves have often had to pay more in the past and would rather sit on it than take a loss. Remember, they are a global business. The economy of the US is not always representative of the rest of the planet. If you don't like their prices, don't buy from them. Sooner or later supply and demand of a capitalist system will require them to bring prices in line with demand or they go out of business with a nice collection. Demonizing quality dealers I think is often unfair. They are a business and not a charity.
At the moment, I am buying while prices moderated. A lot of nice high quality items coming on to the market as well.
Thanks for indulging me,
Rick
Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Rick:
You are so right on. I couldn't have said it better myself.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 15,094 Likes: 99 |
Very Good summary. Thanks.
Dave
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Yes Sir !
I share Joe's perspective regarding my collection as an investment. I do it because it gives me pleasure. However, given the cost of a collection, one does see it as a part of ones estate. My opinions follow and apologize in advance for getting on my soapbox..
Militaria as an investment is not as fungible and liquid compared to a security. Less people want to buy it than say, stock. It occupies a position in one's portfolio such as art. A key to ensuring militaria weathers the cyclicity common in all markets is to buy only the best pieces, say top 20% of the market. Values of top quality pieces are less volitile than common ones. Better to save your money and buy one or two high quality items than amass a collection of common, average pieces. In a down cycle, such as now, you could be left holding the bag if you must sell. At the end of the day, an item is only worth what someone is willing to give you at the time you decide to sell. Harsh perhaps but it is realistic.
Is the Hobby Dying? IMO no. However, it is going through a market correction. Those who bought when prices were higher than they are now, such as myself, may be disappointed if you must sell today. Just like securities, don't panic when the market drops. Don't sell at a loss if you don't have to. Wait for the upswing if you can and it will. Timing of these corrections in collectables traditionally mimic the economy and stock market but tends to lag. Anyone know what the Dow closed at Friday? Hang in there, prices will begin to grow again.
Lastly, why do some dealers get high prices for their items when an individual can't? People pay for their expertise (deserved or not). They have a global distribution network, advertising and reputation. Same for auction houses. I for one have paid a premium for what I considered is added value by using certain dealers. Given the increasing quality of reproductions, the new collectors entering the hobby often are more comfortable and feel they won't be taken advantage of if they do business with well known dealers. As for the high prices some dealers have on their items, they are not trying to rip people off. They are business people. They can ask anything they want. They themselves have often had to pay more in the past and would rather sit on it than take a loss. Remember, they are a global business. The economy of the US is not always representative of the rest of the planet. If you don't like their prices, don't buy from them. Sooner or later supply and demand of a capitalist system will require them to bring prices in line with demand or they go out of business with a nice collection. Demonizing quality dealers I think is often unfair. They are a business and not a charity.
At the moment, I am buying while prices moderated. A lot of nice high quality items coming on to the market as well.
Thanks for indulging me,
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 333 |
Agreed. Not dying, a period of correction also reflected in real estate and stock markets worldwide. I think it was the legendary US investor Warren Buffet who advised: buy when others are selling and sell when others are buying.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 635 |
excellent analysis Rick, looks like you have been around the block once or twice.
Urban B Martinez Jr
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 254
|
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 254 |
Thanks Russian.
Coming from you that is quite a compliment. I have followed your posts and you and I think similarly. Hope to meet you some time at a show. BTW,
I am from the area around Marksville, LA. My family has been in Louisiana since the late 1700's.
Regards,
Rick
Wanted: German Naval Edged Weapons and Related Accouterments
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 457
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 457 |
The young people don't have the disposible dollars we have and they arn't even the remotley interested in our hobby. A perfect example of this demographic is how young people are not even interested in getting a driver licence or car like they were in the past.
Face it this hobby is on life support. I got rid of most of my stuff about 5 years ago. I have a couple nice pieces that I won't sell but as far as buying anything else, unless I can get it at a garage sale price, I won't be.
Last edited by Rick; 09/10/2013 06:59 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 721 Likes: 16
|
|
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 721 Likes: 16 |
I think the folks coming up in the hobby today are more dollar driven than when I started or was collecting. That is not to say that there wasn't money hungry folks then but not as pronounced as in todays market. Most collectors (I used tht term lightly) only want to get something and them "flip" for a profit. I collected for history and the beauty of the pieces. For that reason I made the dicision not to sell to dealers so I gave my collection to my daughter who still appreciates the history of the items.
I know it will be preserved. Ron
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
that is a prime example that the hobby is not dead. However, if the seller of that SS general's visor put it for sale here, what do you think it may have sold for? When two wealthy collector/dealers bang each other over the head in a auction Bidding War for a scarce desirable artifact, is not a good example of the 'Health' of the hobby. I know for a fact that many collectors tired of reducing price down to the nub, are selling their items to top dealers or consigning now. The beginner, to mid-level younger 'family man' type collector is generally out of the hobby at present. They are simply strapped for spare cash. Hard to justify the expenditure to the family when your broke, for something that is offensive to most people and must be kept hidden away. Deep Pocket guys and their dealers will think nothing of spending $700K on a Field Marshalls baton for a flip to a Deep Pocket. These are not buyers for regular Army, Luft, and etc. type run-of-the-mill daggers, nor medals or hats. However, come up with a Honor dagger or Himmler Birthday sword, and it will be sold rather quickly and for top money -still today. The dealers know this markets daily pulse. They are not buying junk, as 'junk' doesn't sell anymore. Even the Russian dealers are not buying junk anymore. However, place a minty scarce artifact out there in the right venue and guess what - it will sell.
|
|
|
|
Forums42
Topics31,668
Posts329,045
Members7,519
| |
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image from germandaggers.com]](http://www.germandaggers.com/minibanners/gdc.jpg)
