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Vern #285908 08/03/2013 11:30 AM
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Joe,

We now have a complete sub-forum (this one)honoring late Members.

Dave

Dave #285909 08/03/2013 11:37 AM
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Well done!

lakesidetrader #285932 08/03/2013 08:34 PM
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I see now. I never would have thought to expand the Display Options to all dates. I don't think someone new browsing the forum will think to do it either.
Vern and Dave, glad you did it, thanks to you both. Don't know how it could be done differently.

Regards, --dj--Joe


<BR>
TRIPLE T #286068 08/07/2013 08:15 PM
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Sorry to see you go, John! You were a great colleague, had a sharp mind, and will be missed. And thanks for the opportunity to be a partner in the sale of the "Sepp Dietrich" of SS Daggers! It was the thrill of my dagger life!

_MG_1457.JPG (55.58 KB, 341 downloads)

Craig Gottlieb
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Craig Gottlieb #286069 08/07/2013 08:22 PM
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Here is a full catalogue of pictures I took of the dagger before it sold. Enjoy the pictures! They're the best photos ever taken of this rare dagger.

http://www.craiggottlieb.com/engine/inspect.asp?Item=6013


Craig Gottlieb
Founder, German Daggers Dot Com
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Craig Gottlieb #286179 08/10/2013 09:53 PM
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Great looking dagger. Anyone have any idea how John happened to buy this dagger?
Thanks


robert grant
bgrelics #286232 08/11/2013 08:29 PM
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I do not know how John Pepara acquired the SS prototype dagger, but a Mr John J Gabrick had it from a nephew of the veteran who returned with it from the war. Mr Gabrick wrote up a detailed account of his find in a 1981 edition of Gun Collectors Digest. Interestingly Mr Gabrick detailed some abuse to the dagger which had knocked out one of the runes from the grip, subsequently restored. I believe that a very similar dagger, also by Alcoso, resided in the collection of the late Robert Waites. Mr Gabrick seemed to have phenomanal luck in turning up prototype daggers, I attach a scan of Mr Gabick's 1981 article for Gun Collectors Digest which details his several interesting finds.

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Barry Brown #286234 08/11/2013 08:32 PM
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Sorry the scans did not post in the correct order, but the page numbers appear and should help to navigate and make sense of Mr Gabrick's article.

Barry Brown #286256 08/12/2013 03:30 AM
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Hi Barry thanks for posting. Was it ever disclosed how he came upon so many prototype daggers? Is there any record of what became of the others? I assume the article is rather old and that Mr.Gabrick has "passed away?" A number of the daggers appearing in the article bear a striking resemblance to those from Italy and other foreign countries. thanks and regards, Ryan

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Some of those prototype daggers, look like they could have been put together from other parts.I have been collecting for over 45 years ,and been doing hotel buys for over 30 years and have never seen a prototype dagger.
Thanks,
Bob


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Hi Ryan. There is an earlier and different account of this dagger in Tom Johnson's vol. 3. Tom relates that the dagger surfaced with the veteran at the March 1976 Houston TX gun show and was later acquired by collector John Schleicher of Tampa Florida. I saw this dagger at an early Max Show when it was graciously displayed by the then owner, the late John Pepara. I also saw and handled its near twin when displayed at the 1992 Max show by the late Robert Waitts. I personally never met with Mr Gabrick and do not know how he came up with so many prototypes, I guess his collection of prototypes is out there somewhere..... Like Bob, I have been collecting for a great many years and have owned many rare iems, but not a prototype. As far as the two almost identical Alcoso SS daggers are concerned I believe them to be showroom pieces, not prototypes submitted to the RFSS - Alcoso (a jewish owned business) was not accepted as a supplier to the SS/SA.

Barry Brown #286291 08/12/2013 11:33 PM
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Hi Barry, I am only 48, though active in the hobby since 1982 and being from Canada, back then I scoured British magazines for their Third Reich ads and articles. You were one of the first chaps that I had heard of...before Tom J and Tom W.....I remember meeting Robert and viewing his outstanding collecting of Damascus and honor daggers/Feldernhalles at past Max and SOS. I also enjoyed an amicable buying relationship with John and we exchanged periodic emails.etc....I have my "opinions" concerning the prototypes but have no issue with the 2 SS dagger samples. The quality and design are outstanding. Thanks Barry cheers and regards, Ryan

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Hi Bob, I concur with your opinion...cheers, Ryan

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Doesn't look like a put together. There are too many 'one off' pieces, and everything appears to have great attention to detail and excellent finish.

, maybe I'm mistaken but wasn't there original period line drawings of the SS dagger that showed up?

Gaspare #286378 08/14/2013 10:53 PM
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Any decision on these daggers can open up a Pandora's box. It would be best to start a whole new thread...Regards:

DAMAST #286469 08/17/2013 02:31 AM
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Barry: I was scrounging through a junk shop in Richmond, VA back in '90 when I found a pile of bayonets and hunting knives. Somewhere in the middle of the pile was a Shooting Dagger as shown on page 204 of your scans. This one was in rough shape but had a dedication on the back of the scabbard throat, "For the best shot in the group". I bought it for a very low price and had it cleaned up by a pro. I showed it to several of the "Big Boys" at the time, no negative replies from them. I eventually sold it to Bob Waites. Today it's tucked away is another private collection.
One of the main considerations I had at the time was that if it were a fake, it would have been near mint and sold for considerably more money.
Brian Rich
Facebook.com/agratefulnation

Notaguru #286486 08/17/2013 05:38 PM
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Brian,
I was just in Richmond a month ago. Great city for finding nice items.
Thanks,
Bob


robert grant
Notaguru #286524 08/18/2013 04:08 PM
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Brian, a great find. Would love to have seen pictures of it in as found condition.

Barry Brown #286534 08/18/2013 05:40 PM
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Barry:
No, I purposely didn't take any "before"' pictures. Although today I wish I had. At the time it seemed it would just be another avenue for the "Ailse Experts" to trash it. It has changed hands a few time over the last 23 years, always to another well informed collector. Between this dagger and my Wire Wrapped Klass Army Dagger, I've learned my lesson about sharing. Right now I working on getting a very rare Navy Dagger from the daughter of the Officer who wore it. Along with it comes two photo albums of the subs he served on and a Log of some sort from one of them. I've known about this grouping since the late '70's. I'm hoping to have it in hand by the MAX Show. If not, I'll just keep after the family for the next 30 years. If I do get it, I already have someone in line for it.
Brian Rich
Facebook.com/agratefulnation

Notaguru #286569 08/19/2013 12:14 AM
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Hope things work out on the dagger and see you at the MAX. The shooting dagger in the Junk shop was a GREAT find! I do know the Imperial style Eickhorn navy dagger pictured and think that may be in Europe now. Regards: James

Last edited by DAMAST; 08/19/2013 12:22 AM.
DAMAST #286576 08/19/2013 02:44 AM
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I used a photo of the SS Prototype Dagger in my Edged Weapons Collectors Calendar, Jan. '89. John sent me the photo. I knew the one rune was missing but obviously it had been replaced by mid-'87 when I was assembling all the photos. He also sent me a photo of two other Prototype daggers he had. I'll see if I can find it and post it.
Brian Rich
Facebook.com/agratefulnation
John was always a great guy to me. I'll miss seeing him.

Last edited by Notaguru; 08/19/2013 02:46 AM.
Notaguru #286726 08/22/2013 11:35 PM
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I'm very sorry to hear that John has passed away. While we only corresponded periodically, he was very helpful and let you know where he stood whether it was good or bad. As far as the connection to Coppel/Alcosco that is still something of a mystery. In correspondence (and his book) with the late Anthony Carter, the firm was destroyed in November of 1944 in a bombing raid. With Coppel/Alcosco the major recipient of government contracts for the German Police, and their inspectors (or whomever was accepting the items) presumably in the factory. And HH besides being the head of the SS, also having control over the German Police. With an interesting line of investigation of the matter IMO being was the SS economic empire working behind the scene?? Which is why I'm not particularly surprised at seeing the Coppel/Alcosco name, and wonder what else might they have been manufacturing including as subcontractors?

Rest in Peace John - you will be greatly missed. Fred

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Bob,
Our buddy "The Phantom" did pull out a NSKK prototype dagger on a hotel buy years ago if I remember correctly. I think it appears in one of the Johnson books now.
Bob

RFI #286791 08/24/2013 11:44 PM
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Yes,
You are correct.He traded the dagger to a collector in Florida for quite a few mint daggers.,SS,rad,dips,etc.He told me that he just keep taking daggers off of this guys display wall,until the guy told him to stop.
Those were the days.
Bob


robert grant
Barry Brown #287008 08/31/2013 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: Barry Brown
Hi Ryan. There is an earlier and different account of this dagger in Tom Johnson's vol. 3. Tom relates that the dagger surfaced with the veteran at the March 1976 Houston TX gun show and was later acquired by collector John Schleicher of Tampa Florida. I saw this dagger at an early Max Show when it was graciously displayed by the then owner, the late John Pepara. I also saw and handled its near twin when displayed at the 1992 Max show by the late Robert Waitts. I personally never met with Mr Gabrick and do not know how he came up with so many prototypes, I guess his collection of prototypes is out there somewhere..... Like Bob, I have been collecting for a great many years and have owned many rare iems, but not a prototype. As far as the two almost identical Alcoso SS daggers are concerned I believe them to be showroom pieces, not prototypes submitted to the RFSS - Alcoso (a jewish owned business) was not accepted as a supplier to the SS/SA.


Barry,

There is some question whether Gabrick was the owner or perhaps middle-man. According to John's written explanation to me, there were only three daggers returned by the veteran, that included the Alcoso, an SS officer and a Heer officer. At a show. the Heer dagger was stolen from the table on which the three were displayed. The veteran was distraught and decided to sell the daggers. The first name I was told in the chain of ownership was Ron Distelhorst, who retained it for a short while. He sold it to Schleicher, who in turn sold it to John. I am unsure of Gabrick's role in all this. He authored the article you pictured, but we know from the veteran's written explanation of the articles he returned that John received, that none of the those other blades in the article were included. From where they came, I am not sure. I do know that Gabrick was hustling the blades in various places of the country by mail. I myself received photos of some of the "prototypes", though not the Alcoso blade. I know of another experienced SS collector who was also offered the blades, including the Alcoso. So Gabrick's role in this is not clear to me. John wrote that Distelhorst uncovered the second "Prototype" that ended up in the Waitts collection.

Last edited by JoeW; 08/31/2013 06:28 AM.

"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
TRIPLE T #287970 09/23/2013 09:43 AM
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We all have our turn. It is with grateful thanks and sincere sympathy for the family that I wish all to know What a wonderful job of sharing his knowledge and willingness to help with the hobby will be appreciated by myself and everyone on the forum who gained from his generosity. Although I did not know him personally, I know we would have been friends. I look forward to meeting him someday.

Sincerely,

Geoffrey

Notaguru #288099 09/27/2013 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: Notaguru
Barry: I was scrounging through a junk shop in Richmond, VA back in '90 when I found a pile of bayonets and hunting knives. Somewhere in the middle of the pile was a Shooting Dagger as shown on page 204 of your scans. This one was in rough shape but had a dedication on the back of the scabbard throat, "For the best shot in the group". I bought it for a very low price and had it cleaned up by a pro. I showed it to several of the "Big Boys" at the time, no negative replies from them. I eventually sold it to Bob Waites. Today it's tucked away is another private collection.
One of the main considerations I had at the time was that if it were a fake, it would have been near mint and sold for considerably more money.
Brian Rich
Facebook.com/agratefulnation



Brian, When you come across a rare piece like that, you know it's authentic. The problem is usually with long time dealers/collectors who will say as Bob said that after all the years of doing Hotel buys he's never come across a 'prototype' dagger. If the SS Krebs prototype dagger would somehow turn up out of the weeds, the guy finding it would naturally believe it, but some others may not. Hence, few collectors who have true rarities today will not care to post them on a forum.

One of the unattainable goals of this hobby is that nobody will ever have seen it all, and certainly will not know it all. Most of these items were destroyed/lost or thrown away, as were most records of the makers.
Where are the all the so called prototype daggers that are in the article Barry posted today ? In advanced collections most likely, and unlikely to ever post on a forum to have it torn to shreds by a Forum Wizard or self described 'Expert'.

I learned something new from Barry's post of the article. The RLB subordinate dagger pictured with the downturned crossguard, there is another version of this type of prototype, one that has upturned wings. It's described exactly as in the article. Oh, yes, this one came from the 'weeds' from the vets son who said his father said he got it out of a factory. I know how I got it, but how many here are going to believe in it ?
No, I'm not going to post it here and please don't ask in a PM. However, if your going to the MAX, come to our table (across from Witty) and I will let you examine it 'IN HAND'. There is no other substitute, and none better than seeing it in person. Viewing all the special machining works, the late plastic hanger and other small but unique details and then as you gain knowledge then form your opinion.

To guys who say 'I've never seen that before'. All that means is 'You never seen that before'. grin
As Paul H. says ..... 'Never Say Never we are all still Learning'.

Hope to see you all at the MAX.
Serge


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I saw a poor copy of John's SS Prototype Dagger at the MAX this weekend. I couldn't even ask how much it was.

Notaguru #288549 10/12/2013 05:01 AM
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I am a very early member on this site. I was sidetracked and haven't been here in quite some time. I just learned about his demise, very, very sad. I remember him from a while ago. We are getting older and unfortunately we will have to deal with this. He will b missed.

Herr Wolf #288595 10/12/2013 06:58 PM
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I've been off the forum for almost a year due to a family situation I'm going through so I've just saw this recently. I have not had the pleasure of meeting John but would like to offer my condolences to his family and friends.

Rich


In memory of my loyal companion Nitro.
Pitbull63 #288883 10/18/2013 11:10 AM
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i ve heard about john pepera only for his fame in the world of collectors and for his passion and knowledge...i didn't have any ciontact with him because i'm totally new in this world...but i'm very sad for this bad new...he will miss everybody too much...

luca #289902 11/06/2013 12:00 AM
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I am told that John's collection will be auctioned by Hermann Historica.

Dave #290225 11/14/2013 03:46 AM
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If so, it will be a crazy auction.

patrice #290237 11/14/2013 12:56 PM
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....and well worth the price of the catalogue if nothing else!
P


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
Paul #290315 11/16/2013 03:18 AM
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John was a stand up guy--I recall several years ago selling him a few higher priced mint cased & boxed awards--when he received them he immediately wanted to return the most expensive mint cased and boxed piece which he said he had already put in the mail back to me. Apparently it was unbelievably too mint. The next day he messaged me and told me that he had made a terrible mistake and could I return the package back to him because he now believed it was good and it was the condition which had fooled him IIRC- He profusely apologized that he was in error so of course I did. I imagine that award and those pieces may still be part of his collection and may be part of that sale.
After that exchange John would make it a point to purchase without any hesitation, all TR awards that I would post for sale regardless of condition or how common they might have been. That is my John story and I am sticking to it...

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Dave #297586 05/15/2014 08:54 PM
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What I presume to be the bulk of John's collection went under the hammer yesterday. I followed the auction and found it rather sad to see his collection being broken up but such is life. I dare say that there was a lot of nice items that were picked out by his closest colleagues before the remainder went to auction. In some way I was surprised that the daggers on offer were not the best condition wise. I was interested to bid on a couple of items but when you factored in the HH 23% buyer fee the shipping and import taxes there was no way that anything near a fair deal was to be had for the overseas bidder. I did know that John was very in to the gold party badges but to quite what extent I did find surprising. He really had a passion for those and there were a surprising number of matched pairs with their award documents. They went for a lot of $$$$ Go figure? Each to their own but they have not the slightest allure to me.

Like already said, I suspect much was otherwise sold off than through Hermann's auction.


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Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
Landser #297603 05/16/2014 03:03 AM
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I just asked that question in another area. Shame it got cherry-picked. It will be interesting to see where it turns up. If you see it on any dealer sites, please psot!

Dave

Dave #297638 05/17/2014 02:47 PM
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The best part..of this is that His family was taken care of.


Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
Dave #297960 05/30/2014 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
I just asked that question in another area. Shame it got cherry-picked. It will be interesting to see where it turns up. If you see it on any dealer sites, please psot!

Dave


You know Dave, I don't know who started that rumor, but it is unsubstantiated. John was selling items up to his untimely death a year ago. He was buying a few things. I shared tables with him for ten years at the SOS. Many of this items were sold over these past years as his health declined. Some deals that he was working on in the final months were finalized by his daughter. He had some requests identified in his papers. These were satisfied. The GPBs went for some high dollars. I bid on one badge/ausweis set that I helped him acquire some years ago.


"This hobby is a continuing education"
Looking for Walther Model 8 #727649
and Walther PP #975557
JoeW #297971 05/30/2014 10:16 PM
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What was important to me was what was there. As I posted in another category, there were these GPB's that could identified:

http://phpstack-500133-1583587.cloudwaysapps.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=297590#Post297590

I also bought the the two numbered SS daggers in his sale and the other in the general sale. No one asked me if they could be identified and their original owners have interesting stories. I was surprised that John never asked me about his numbered daggers.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.ss-numbers.com


"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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