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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 71
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OP
Joined: Jul 2010
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Hi! Please give an opinion on this Pioneer dress bayonet by Rich A Herder, I think is the most scarce variation of the 'Pioneer' called dress bayonets, is this maker known to make this model? thanks in advance
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,199 |
Normally the S84/98 Extra bayonet should be with normal pommel like a combat one, the pictured one has a KS98 head with a S84/98 crossguard and blade. Certainly there was many variation by various producers.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Hi AndyB, thanks for the opinion, I saw this combination not too often but from to time it appears, what I had never seen is one from this maker, that's the point for me on this one. Regards
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,134 Likes: 24
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,134 Likes: 24 |
A very nice hilt configuration, not often seen.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
Here are two Eickhorn pioniers with two different quillon configurations.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,134 Likes: 24
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,134 Likes: 24 |
Nice examples John. While all Pioneer bayonets are uncommon, I definitely think the ones with the full beak pommel are more scarce & desirable.
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Any germans collectors are confused about the pioneer name? is there any evidence that such pommel was called pioneer dress?
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Joined: Jul 2010
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I read in the George wheeler book 'Seitengewehr' that this bayonet models no are initially called 'pioneer' models but just another versions of the KS98, when the selling of this models go bad they called this way to improve sales.
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,155 Likes: 5
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Yes, anyone could purchase this bayonet configuration, it was not just made for Pioneers. You need to look closely at the crossguard on these sidearms to make certain the finger guard has not been removed postwar to make it like this. The end of the guard should have full plating for it to be correct.
"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Orpo:
I got burned on flea-bay by not following this simple rule. The pictures posted carefully hid the lack of plating. And the seller did a medical problem dance to defer my refund until past the e-bay deadline for problem resolution.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Thanks for the tip,I also was almost cheated by an Internet seller with no interest in show the end of the guard, as he doesn't want to send additional pics I prefer not to buy it, you can imagine why he didn' send them! does anybody has seen this model by thi maker? in the book Mr Wheeler wrote that only know examples of them by Eickhorn, Alcoso and WKC
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,134 Likes: 24
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,134 Likes: 24 |
I have never seen a Pioneer bayonet by Herder but there very well may be some out there. As far as maker marks, I have a long model by Pack & a short model by Wusthof. My friend Steve C. Has a long model by Christianswerk, what a nice example that one is!
GDC Gold Badge #290 GDC Silver Badge #310
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Joined: May 2004
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Joined: May 2004
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whilst we are on the subject thoughts on this one would be appreciated. Big Seilheimer bayo fan and have been chasing a pioneer for ages - just not sure on this one....
GDC silver member #393
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,834
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Joined: Dec 2001
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For information purposes, here are Pioneer bayonets I have owned.
1. Paul Weyersberg - long blade - clipped quillion.(early oval trademark in the Paweco style) 2. E.u.F. H�rster - long blade - clipped quillion. 3. Emil Voos - short blade - clipped quillion. 4. Carl Eickhorn - long blade - clipped quillion. 5. C. Gustav Spitzer - long blade - unclipped quillion. 6. Carl Julius Krebs - short blade - unclipped quillion.
Based on personal experience, I have found the short blade with unclipped quillion to be far the hardest to locate, followed by the unclipped, long blade version.
WANTED TO REPURCHASE!! Walther pistol Model PP - ac code - Ser. No. 382000P - REWARD FOR INFO ABOUT THIS PISTOL!!
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Hi Denny! thanks for showing these fantastic pieces! very nice ones, with such variety of makers shown in this thread I assume that mine is perfectly legit
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Just flew into the Great White North.. this long Pioniere hilted Eickhorn bayonet with the 35-41 TM and the full beak.
I now have two 35-41 long Pioniere bayos. The differences are more than just the pommel beakk, but also the crossguards.
John
TM.JPG (39.68 KB, 73 downloads)
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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