UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum Pioneer bayonet

Hi! Please give an opinion on this Pioneer dress bayonet by Rich A Herder, I think is the most scarce variation of the 'Pioneer' called dress bayonets, is this maker known to make this model? thanks in advance

Normally the S84/98 Extra bayonet should be with normal pommel like a combat one, the pictured one has a KS98 head with a S84/98 crossguard and blade. Certainly there was many variation by various producers.

Hi AndyB, thanks for the opinion, I saw this combination not too often but from to time it appears, what I had never seen is one from this maker, that's the point for me on this one. Regards

A very nice hilt configuration, not often seen.

Here are two Eickhorn pioniers with two different quillon configurations.

John

Nice examples John. While all Pioneer bayonets are uncommon, I definitely think the ones with the full beak pommel are more scarce & desirable.

Any germans collectors are confused about the pioneer name? is there any evidence that such pommel was called pioneer dress?

I read in the George wheeler book 'Seitengewehr' that this bayonet models no are initially called 'pioneer' models but just another versions of the KS98, when the selling of this models go bad they called this way to improve sales.

Yes, anyone could purchase this bayonet configuration, it was not just made for Pioneers. You need to look closely at the crossguard on these sidearms to make certain the finger guard has not been removed postwar to make it like this. The end of the guard should have full plating for it to be correct.

Orpo:

I got burned on flea-bay by not following this simple rule. The pictures posted carefully hid the lack of plating. And the seller did a medical problem dance to defer my refund until past the e-bay deadline for problem resolution.

John

Thanks for the tip,I also was almost cheated by an Internet seller with no interest in show the end of the guard, as he doesn't want to send additional pics I prefer not to buy it, you can imagine why he didn' send them! does anybody has seen this model by thi maker? in the book Mr Wheeler wrote that only know examples of them by Eickhorn, Alcoso and WKC

I have never seen a Pioneer bayonet by Herder but there very well may be some out there. As far as maker marks, I have a long model by Pack & a short model by Wusthof. My friend Steve C. Has a long model by Christianswerk, what a nice example that one is!

whilst we are on the subject thoughts on this one would be appreciated. Big Seilheimer bayo fan and have been chasing a pioneer for ages - just not sure on this one....

For information purposes, here are Pioneer bayonets I have owned.

1. Paul Weyersberg - long blade - clipped quillion.(early oval trademark in the Paweco style)
2. E.u.F. H�rster - long blade - clipped quillion.
3. Emil Voos - short blade - clipped quillion.
4. Carl Eickhorn - long blade - clipped quillion.
5. C. Gustav Spitzer - long blade - unclipped quillion.
6. Carl Julius Krebs - short blade - unclipped quillion.

Based on personal experience, I have found the short blade with unclipped quillion to be far the hardest to locate, followed by the unclipped, long blade version.

Hi Denny! thanks for showing these fantastic pieces! very nice ones, with such variety of makers shown in this thread I assume that mine is perfectly legit

Just flew into the Great White North.. this long Pioniere hilted Eickhorn bayonet with the 35-41 TM and the full beak.

I now have two 35-41 long Pioniere bayos. The differences are more than just the pommel beakk, but also the crossguards.

John