Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
I thought maybe we could have a discussion on the German Cross!

Gold and Silver!

I hope collectors will add some pics and thoughts!

Would really like to know how many old collectors from hotel
buys and such in early days of collecting ever got a real
one from the vet!

I have collected over 45 yrs since jr high! 1969 so not really the early days like some guys! But still early!

When I was in high school my buddies dad got a box of goodies
since he was in antiques and such!

He got one in cigar box with pin broke off and cost him $20.00!

I never forgot how it looked and even smelled! That old german silver for guys that have handled coins or jewelry!

It has been burned in my brain now for over 40 yrs!

I have always loved the German Cross and its look!

It was like a silver dollar kind of silver and back was worn and nothing like the ones I have seen since that day!

It was a one look oh my god beauty like all real vet find are!

Now Being from Cleveland which was a hot spot of vet bring backs!

I have known many collectors who did the shows and buys just like me and who my quess total 200 yrs of collecting!

Nobody I know or talked to got one thru different means!

Now I really believe they are much rarer than many collectors think!

Collectors demand certain items and some how they appear!

I know the big boys will have many still in cellaphane and claim vet find!

Show me the vet finds of long ago! I never liked most I have seen thru the yrs! Didn't look like the one I saw!

Like any one look finds collector do not sell those!

Have any of you found vet bringbacks of the german Cross?

Ron Weinand

I would love to know how many you got in your yrs!

Part 2 coming

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
part 2

I really think they are rare! The bringback ones!

My quess is the 1960's collectors for medals and uniforms
would have scooped up the real ones for collection!

The big shows have the big boys with a fine supply of them to fill demand!

I would love to hear the story and you know there is one!

I collected over 45 yrs and others I know have never seen a vet bring back! Ed Sunday has done jewerly show and and antique shows since we were kids! Ask him!

Now with all the collectors in my area why not? Cleveland was a huge area for bringbacks!

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Why? Do I need to tell you?

I would like to see some generals groups and see if any are included!

But remember that museum staff and collectors were famous for switching stuff in the past!

Maybe we could hire Miss Cleo and have her tell us where
the stash is!

The demand for real my quess still out weighs the amount brought back!

If you saw what I saw back in my youth not many would give them up!

So please chime in your thoughts and show yours!

Cloth ones are around! I had a white one once!

Here are some that burned collectors pre internet days!

Many big dealers wish internet would goaway so the fleecing could continue!

A collector with money bought these yrs ago!

Not even a thought! Big money lost in the 1980's

Big-buy!-100.jpg (108.81 KB, 145 downloads)
Big-buy!-105.jpg (45.03 KB, 145 downloads)
Big-buy!-113.jpg (82.84 KB, 145 downloads)
Big-buy!-105.jpg (45.03 KB, 145 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Not sure this forum is the place to be honest!

But lets give it a go! What say you Joe!

PVON

Big-buy!-110.jpg (57.82 KB, 142 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Forgot

For you minty collectors many big dealers have them in the cellaphane for you!

I would want bringsbacks which is not going to happen
in my lifetime anymore!

What say you!

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Never say never Paul...

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Paul

Its a very attractive looking item!

I wonder if for 70 yrs old and I would think more why the
cellaphane is not hazy and yellow!

Maybe its the pic!

I am not a chemist but would like to know how they break down with age!

Maybe its the maker or the one I saw was jeweler made!

But the back was nothing like any I have seen since!

I don't think the mystery wil be solved since I don't believe
many have ever seen what I describe!

Who has got a vet bringback documented that was not mint!
Trying to learn!
PVON

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Wanted to add that how many german soldiers and officers
surrendered plus generals. Iwould like to know where all those
decorations went.

I really would like to know how many Ron W got walk in his
50 yrs of hotel buys?

Thats what I am trying to learn!

I believe ED Sunday knows what I am saying as we went to a collectors house out his way!

He collected SS and Luft badges! His badges just stood out and that german silver had a smell!

And he wasn't selling those!

PVON

Last edited by pvon; 04/14/2013 05:24 PM.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917
Likes: 5
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917
Likes: 5
I have found several DKiG from veterans (probably around 10), MANY cloth DKiG, ONE DKiS and NO DKiS Cloth. I have found MORE KVK Without Swords Cased than the DKiS, so they are rare.
The DKiG: 1 -21, 3 - 134 and the rest were 20 marked. The only Heavy one was the 21, the rest were the lighter version as was the DKiS 20.
Ron


MAX CHARTER MEMBER

LIFE MEMBER OVMS
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
And another


Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Paul:

You are just teasing us, aren't you?

John

Obverse 2.JPG (87.63 KB, 112 downloads)
Obverse Closeup.JPG (40.87 KB, 112 downloads)
Reverse.JPG (40.4 KB, 112 downloads)
Front.JPG (39.33 KB, 110 downloads)
Closeup Swas.JPG (40.09 KB, 111 downloads)
Closeup Tip.JPG (41.68 KB, 111 downloads)
Back.JPG (40.34 KB, 111 downloads)

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Johnny,

Now you're teasing, right? grin

The German crosses are beautiful medals, no doubt about it.

Best!

Bill

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
E
Offline
E
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,017
In all my years of collecting and placing ads in local papers to buy german war relics, I have only run across one (cased) right from the vet that brought it back. This was im guessing 15 years ago...Bought it from him for a 100 sold it to a military dealer about 6 months later for 500 and he turned around and sold it for (I cant remember if it was 750 or 1000) a month or so later. The one I have currenly came from a major dealer and has documination with it and a letter from the daughter of the german vet it was awarded to. My downsizing tool isn't working if someone would downsize it for me and put it on I would show it.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Earl send me the pics and I will post it!

pvon67@aol.com


So If I am hearing Ron right in 50 yrs and how many hotel buys
per yr he got 10 and that includes the cloth ones! So whats that 5 maybe 6 regular!

I also got some email from long time collectors that got 1!

Not enough to supply the entire Max or SOS show!


Paul Hogles is a real beauty for sure! Johns look beautiful also!

But I can't explain the one I saw with missing pin but I have been around a long time!

Discussion is good and I am just saying what I saw and know!

I have been around a long time and things do show up when demand calls for it!


Thousands were lost on badges sold as real in preinternet days!

They still argue on other forums on whats good! People specialize much more!

Thats why I believe medals and badges are not anywhere as popular as they were!

Edgeweapons took many collectors away!

SS cloth is another mine field that humbled many that thought they knew!

Thanks to all showing and talking!

PVON

I just think they are rarer and really beautiful!

Last edited by pvon; 04/15/2013 02:38 AM.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Hey P you mean that collector that lived by my parents house....he had the stuff!! I sold him that early Juncker paratrooper badge and you bought that great salty and REAL police officer tunic that had a REAL SS bullion breast badge !
Fine SS merch. and daggers to boot. I think he even smelled that badge I sold him.

Alot of the old timers that worked with jewelry would smell metals as all metals tend to emit an odor or characteristic. Most of the german medals were made using metals such as Silver, Nickel, Brass, Zinc, Aluminum, Sheet Metal,and Gold in some cases etc.

I've noticed that many of the repro badges of very good quality just don't emit these odors because they probably aren't using the original process or materials.

Now as for repros involving genuine silver .....I know some people who can make these that WILL trip the experts, that's why I tend to stay with blades.

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Paul I believe those German crosses you showed as 80's mistakes were from that one fellow who sold us his swords and daggers ?

From what I remember he had over $20,000 tied up in Luft.and Navy badges along with some other # tank badges and ended up taking a beating !! shocked

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Hi Ed

Yes thats the guy! The para badge was fine!

And yes thats Joe's german crosses and yes he spent a ton on badges that turned out bad!

I still have pics of them!

Ed

How many german crosses did you get in 40 yrs of antique buys?

You and Carrie sure did your share of shows! Or for that matter back to Aurora Farms flea market when we were kids!

Lots of stuff back in late 1960's early 1970's!

Here is a pic of Ricks! He will take more pics!

DSCN0926.jpg (118.99 KB, 69 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Ed

Being a jeweler I know you would know about the smell!

I remember that para badge and you would almost have to wash your hands if handled! The smell from my quess german silver

His badges (The ones I would want were like that!)

Thanks for chiming in!

I was just trying to explain the one I saw 40 yrs ago had a sorta smooth back and sorta german silver finish!Silver dollar look!

Many I see now have a aluminum look on back!

Could just be different makers!

Reminds me of nickel silver luft and alum luft! Real but different!

PVON

DSCN0926.jpg (122.05 KB, 65 downloads)
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
I've noticed that many of the repro badges of very good quality just don't emit these odors because they probably aren't using the original process or materials.

Above statement by Ed Sunday!

For those that don't know Ed, he is a master watch man and jeweler who is very gifted!

He has that 3rd eye as they say with a loupe!

Like EF Hutton when he speaks my ears go up!

All I am saying is I believe they are rarer than most think
and for those that have them I would venture to say you are lucky!

PVON

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Originally Posted By: pvon
Hi Ed

Yes thats the guy! The para badge was fine!

And yes thats Joe's german crosses and yes he spent a ton on badges that turned out bad!

I still have pics of them!

Ed

How many german crosses did you get in 40 yrs of antique buys?

You and Carrie sure did your share of shows! Or for that matter back to Aurora Farms flea market when we were kids!

Lots of stuff back in late 1960's early 1970's!

Here is a pic of Ricks! He will take more pics!


Between all the shows I did with my parents and with Carrie which she and i would average around 25 to 30 shows a year we traveled all over the US buying and selling at convention centers , large shopping malls , and some of the countries largest indoor outdoor markets I did not see many of these higher end medals like I see so many now.


I've only turned up three metal crosses and many cloth ones over the years.
One of the crosses was as you say a heavy silver quality and showed field use.....I suspect early made as it was weighty.
The other two were both marked with the #20 and did not have the same quality.

Wow....Aurora farms was great for making good scores. I remember buying three police bayos and two hitler youths from a vendor for a whopping $75.....even asked me if i was allowed to have knives and I told him i had guns....i think at that time i was 13 !

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
P
pvon Offline OP
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,682
Likes: 53
Thanks Ed

Its good for this forum to get real info!

Yes I have a pic of me and Jim Stepanik set up at Hartville flea market 1970. I was not old enough to drive and my father would drop me off and I would set up! I will be 60 in Oct!

Had a table full of German helmets and gas masks!

I met you and your dad and mom!

Your dad was really a class guy and a early buyer of coins
and watches and antiques!

Those were the early days in the land of plenty!

You would hustle and buy daggers back then! What around 35.00
or maybe 50.00 for rig! Lots of money!

But your dad knew!He let you operate and look at you now!

PVON

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 826
Originally Posted By: pvon
Thanks Ed

Its good for this forum to get real info!

Yes I have a pic of me and Jim Stepanik set up at Hartville flea market 1970. I was not old enough to drive and my father would drop me off and I would set up! I will be 60 in Oct!

Had a table full of German helmets and gas masks!

I met you and your dad and mom!

Your dad was really a class guy and a early buyer of coins
and watches and antiques!

Those were the early days in the land of plenty!

You would hustle and buy daggers back then! What around 35.00
or maybe 50.00 for rig! Lots of money!

But your dad knew!He let you operate and look at you now!

PVON



Now that we live near the flea market it is pretty much worthless!!

Back in the late 60's and 70's you had to be there by 5:00 am or you were stuck in a line of traffic that was bumper to bumper for 5 miles ! I'd walk around with a flashlight asking for watches , jewelry and nazi stuff....people would look at me like I was nuts !

I can recall getting quite a few S/A's for $25-$35 bucks back then and as for imperial not many cared.

Yea my parents were definitely anitque freaks. My dad allowed the Nazi stuff even though he new it was taboo as he realised I was showing an interest in something collectible and from there my interests expanded into precious metals, watches and firearms.

I definitely owe it all to my parents for showing me and educating me along the way in the early years when there were really NO books on antiques or military collectibles that were useful or accurate !


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,661 SS Bayonets
1,760,360 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,801 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Spitzer Stuka Etch Opinions
by RookieSA - 03/29/2024 09:58 AM
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Latest New Posts
Personalized reproduction honor ring source?
by Gaspare - 03/29/2024 01:08 PM
Spitzer Stuka Etch Opinions
by RookieSA - 03/29/2024 01:01 PM
Luftwaffe Swords
by Luftbud - 03/29/2024 09:21 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Luftbud - 03/29/2024 09:13 AM
F Dula with a twist
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 03/28/2024 09:29 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,653
Posts328,719
Members7,502
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
9 members (Gaspare, RookieSA, Baz69, Documentalist, Evgeniy, Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), Mat J, maybarker, Billy G.), 560 guests, and 143 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5