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#272694 10/22/2012 02:29 PM
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zoza Offline OP
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Hey guys,,

check out this number... interesting,, note the uppside down 86!!!
Have you seen anything like it before?

My opinion is that its 86th sturm with the ss manns number #3106

#3106 goes to a Obersturmfuhrer Hermann Seibert..
born : 08-07-1900
NSDAP number:176 209

Could I be correct???.

SS DAGGER-8.JPG (93.19 KB, 297 downloads)
Last edited by zoza; 10/22/2012 02:36 PM.
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Wishful thinking I think it is 98306 around a district stamp I or 983106 with the 8 upside down and 6 used upsidedown for the 9

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Doesn't look like a particularly period font either I would pass

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zoza Offline OP
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AJ
sorry I didnt mention this is a 121/34 dagger...
I handeld a few over the years and never had any district mark on my crossguard..

SS DAGGER-7.jpeg (79.65 KB, 301 downloads)
SS DAGGER-5.jpeg (71.34 KB, 301 downloads)
SS DAGGER-2.jpeg (23.16 KB, 301 downloads)
SS DAGGER-1.jpeg (25.12 KB, 301 downloads)
Last edited by zoza; 10/22/2012 06:46 PM.
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Originally Posted By: A J
Wishful thinking I think it is 98306 around a district stamp I or 983106 with the 8 upside down and 6 used upsidedown for the 9

The number IMO is a "983106" because there is no mistaking the orientation of the "3", and I don't see the "1" as a district stamp. With the "9" and "6" at first looking to me like a "6" or "9" stamp that had been inverted. But then after a little closer look - it looks like it might be some kind of engraving (?). Because the enclosed center part of the "9" has more of a round shape, while the "6" is more egg shaped. FP

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Strange looking number. I have seen many numbered SS daggers with both stamped and engraved numbers, but nothing like this.

Also I have never seen a dagger with an SS number that high. I think the highest I have seen is under 400,000.

Dave

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Hi All:

SS Mann No. 98 306 can be identified. That number would be appropriate for a 1934 SS dagger since the SS membership number was probably assigned in 1933.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.ss-numbers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com


"Making History Personal"- Research for Collectors by a Collector.
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Here is what I hope is a little better look at the marking. Which seems to have been done all at the same time, but maybe some better closeups will show something else?? FP

SS_DAGGER-8-mkg-2.jpg (91.98 KB, 238 downloads)
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983106 members in the very early years?

Gerd

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nay sayers wow now we are passing daggers by because of number stampings? Whats next handles that are too dark or not dark enough? The dagger is fine and I have no issue with the stamping. In cases such as these it is accept it as correct until proven otherwise...kind of like replaced handles on second Lufts and Heer daggers...If we only knew... I will say one thing the numbers certainly don't look as if they were stamped yesterday..Ross comes through again...

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zoza Offline OP
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I Still belive that it is 86th. And the ss number 3106..
I have not seen district stampings I..II..or III. On 121/34 daggers before...
And clearly the 98... Is upside down..
Just my two cents..

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Hi it is not a district number....it is not a Roman numeral

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The dagger looks fine with out a doubt,but regarding the number i'm with Ross.

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I would ask Ross about 98306 I am sure an Obersturm Fuhrer would have taken more care of his dagger Just my two cents
Further was your OSF in the 86th div?

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So is the insinuation then that the combination of dagger type and number are incorrect because being so early, the number has to be on an early nickle silver dagger? This is mere conjecture and opinion that is not based on fact. Unless one can substantiate that the stamping was done post war then we will never know. Ask one of the two Toms if this combination is an impossibility. Sorry, just don't like to see an item tainted because it does not meet the smallest of collecting community detail. In my opinion this dagger is fine and this combination could very well exist..., it might not conform for an early high ranking member but that in of itself is not enough reason to cast it aside...cheers, Ryan

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Sorry, but I still don't know what that number is.

That stroke that looks like part of an exclamation mark means something and it is NOT a poor strike of a Roman numeral "I".

AJ - I suspect it is later owners that did not take care of the dagger. And there is no 86th SS Division or 86th SS Sturm that I can find.

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Thanks Dave and Ryan get off my case I wasn't denouncing the dagger just suggesting zoza should talk to Ross who can identify another potential owner who fits the 1934 time frame

by the way if you got your PM on here and your email sorted I would have bought several of your recently advertised lots
but you won't sell if you have your head where the sun don't shine
Tony

Last edited by A J; 10/25/2012 12:05 AM.
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Tony, my comments weren't directed at you or anyone in particular. Just expressing an opinion...sorry that you perceived it as such. Sorry that you took offence.cheers, Ryan

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But there is a 86th Standarte.

Standarte 62 and 86 belonged to SS-Gruppe West and from November 1933 to SS-Ober Abschnitt, South-west.
Location: KARLSRUHE

Gerd

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Kreta, I stand corrected.

AJ - further insults will get you time off.

Dave

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Apologies Dave but myself and Ryan are on the same wavelength and have been communicating privately on the matter. I apologise if my remark offended anyone it didn't offend Ryan as far as I know
Tony

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zoza Offline OP
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Gerd!

Yes correct!!! 86 standarte!! i was thinking sturm...

We need Ross`s help here to figure this one out.. If there is any info in the files regarding That SS mann #3106 was in the 86 standarte, then we could be home !

Ross please HELP!

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Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: A J
Wishful thinking I think it is 98306 around a district stamp I or 983106 with the 8 upside down and 6 used upsidedown for the 9

The number IMO is a "983106" because there is no mistaking the orientation of the "3", and I don't see the "1" as a district stamp. With the "9" and "6" at first looking to me like a "6" or "9" stamp that had been inverted. But then after a little closer look - it looks like it might be some kind of engraving (?). Because the enclosed center part of the "9" has more of a round shape, while the "6" is more egg shaped. FP

may be

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Hermann Seibert with SS No. 3106 starts to turn up in SS-Dienstalterslistes in 1936 assigned with the 32. SS-Standarte. Would have to pull his file to see if there is an earlier connection to the 86. SS-Standarte.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.ss-numbers.com


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Dave and Tony...no offence taken. We are all bigger than that and we all have bad days..no harm no foul. cheers

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zoza Offline OP
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Thanks Ross!

This will be a hard one to crack...

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Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
............... That stroke that looks like part of an exclamation mark means something and it is NOT a poor strike of a Roman numeral "I". .................

Dave's observation of the exclamation mark appearance (wide to narrow) of the number "1" triggered a memory of the same type of marking seen in another GDC discussion from quite a while back. Not that I am saying that the two are related - just that they physically IMO might have been done the same way (ie: the same type of tool). FP

improvised marking style.jpg (59.47 KB, 127 downloads)
SS_DAGGER-8-mkg-2.jpg (91.98 KB, 123 downloads)
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zoza Offline OP
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Any news Ross :-)
thanks ...
Originally Posted By: Ross Kelbaugh (SS-Researcher)
Hermann Seibert with SS No. 3106 starts to turn up in SS-Dienstalterslistes in 1936 assigned with the 32. SS-Standarte. Would have to pull his file to see if there is an earlier connection to the 86. SS-Standarte.

Enjoy!

Ross Kelbaugh

www.ssdaggers.com
www.ss-numbers.com

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Gentleman
a lot of number and letter stamps back then were hand cut/made by the tool and die makers and in a hand made stamp you would have thick and thin areas of the character. You see these type characters on some badges where they are thick and thin parts of the character C.E.Juncker Berlin ( Juncker made pilots badges)their name logo which was stamped in the rear of the badge, if looked at very close had thick and thin areas in their characters.
The one for the 1 does look kind of strange as most a their 1's had the little line at the top but not always the serif at the bottom. Just some things to consider.
thanks
mike
Originally Posted By: Fred Prinz - FP
Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
............... That stroke that looks like part of an exclamation mark means something and it is NOT a poor strike of a Roman numeral "I". .................

Dave's observation of the exclamation mark appearance (wide to narrow) of the number "1" triggered a memory of the same type of marking seen in another GDC discussion from quite a while back. Not that I am saying that the two are related - just that they physically IMO might have been done the same way (ie: the same type of tool). FP


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