UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum 44cof "y" block with pressed paper frog?

Nice matching bayonet with just a little rust spotting on the scabbard. I don't recall seeing a presstoff (?) frog before. Are they rare? I think I have a paper belt somewhere. Never seen the ammo pouches in paper. You guys ever seen them before? Kind of setting up a display with my SVW45 K98k "O" stock. Doug

Had a problem posting pictures here so I posted them at http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/daggers-sw...19/#post682570. Thanks Doug

Hi Doug,

Press-Stoff items are very tough to find, I've only seen a handful of these items over the years. These and some fabulous plastic items don't grow on trees. Civilian helmet-liners, tinnies, loads of belts and leather accessories can be found made of "Ersatz-Stoff," in this case, heavy, pressed paper.

The Germans were genious for developing replacement-substitute-products during both World Wars - Ersatzteile. The Russians had a funny saying about this, "If you give a German a bunch of tin-cans and he goes into the woods, that bastard will come out with a machine-gun!! The Facist engineers, planners and workers at top-levels were pretty clever. Many of those men were spared from the horror of front-line duties due to 'preferred-status'. Most poor slobs were grunts like most of us, ha. Officers and enlisted alike...

Don't go for high-end-crap until your confident of your own abilities, or, be prepared to pay for the expertise of rock solid dealers, those who are willing to give some kind of guarantee. You should at least have a one or two week option of returning something.

Bayonets and fighting knives are fine and won't cause you to become a pauper if you make a "fatal-choich," on your own.

Some nice items on your website.

Hope you'll continue to collect originals, they're ever so much more fun than the best reproductions. Hope you've caught the "original" bug.

All the best with your quest!

Bill W.

I've only been collecting this stuff for 50 years or so. I'm into the edges of it all. 1. The very early, high quality, well marked and sharp looking stuff. 2. The late, cheap, cheesy, rough unmarked crap. The common stuff in the middle just doesn't do it for me. Thanks for the German language terms and spelling, not my strong suite. Got a clue if they ever made Press-Stoff K98k ammo pouches? Thanks again, Doug

The laminated paper and leather frog is a very scarce variant. I have encountered less than half a dozen in 35+ years of collecting. The first example I found held a worn "43cvl" S84/98 T3. Theory is such ersatz pattern frogs (the green cloth "bread bag" frogs being a prime example) were intended for non-front-line troops. Combat troops always received preference when it came to the quality of equipment, although that did degenerate throughout the war. Ersatz materials usually would not stand up well to the rigors of combat, so equipment made of this was relegated to para-military organizations. I also have a variant made of some form of plastic with an imitation pigskin appearance...only one of these I have ever seen.

Wow! Yeah. I figured that if was something I have not seen in 50 years of collecting this stuff I'm buying it if it is sure to be original and cheap. (I'm Cheap.) I would never think of taking the frog off this scabbard as the risk of damage is just to great. It is nice that the bayonet matches too. Kind of dates it a little in my mind. Anybody got a clue where the "y" block was in the year date of 1944? Obivously military issue. They were putting out non military bayonets at that time as well. I have a couple. Very interesting for timing of the press-stoff frog. Thanks FredM, Doug

Yeah. They had all sorts of off the wall military units all requireing special diets or other things to accomodate their particular peculeairities of the members doing rear area type of work. Anything to releave a healthy body to the front. I can see this setup in a guard shack infront of some compound somewhere with a note not to get it wet on it. Hung up on a peg for anyone doing that duty to put on for looks.

Here is another example....

Denny:
That is a very nice frog, too! It does not appear to be marked. I have not found one with a leather pouch and laminated paper body. It is reminiscent of the A. Fischer|Berlin variants made in the late 1930s, but those had a impregnated fabric body and were painted (Police) brown. Same with the rubberized fabric frogs by C. Reise|Berlin|1941. Limited manufacture of these two ersatz variants took place long before the actual need arose for substitute equipments.

Really facinating that these were produced before the last months of the war. I would of never thought. Doug

My thoughts are these were made in 1942 or earlier like the holsters during the leather shortages...although i have a 44 marked press paper lp 42 holster. Can anyone substantiated a frog dated 44 or later that is press paper/laminated paper/press stoff?

Turns out I do have an example like this after all. Something I picked up in the past year, set aside, and forgot about as I was focused on other matters...