UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Holler TM Variations

To follow up from a previous thread on Personalized Holler Daggers, I believe there are at least 3 genuine Holler TM variations found on Army daggers. Further I believe the more ticks on the thermometer, the earlier the Holler blade/dagger. For reference I have used pics from the previous thread and a pic from Wittmann's site. The first pic shows a later Holler TM with 11 ticks down one side of the Thermometer. The following pic 2 shows a mid period Holler TM with 17 ticks down one side and the last pic an early holler with 19 ticks down one side. This analysis may also be useful in aligning the various Holler Xguard types... Comments welcome.


Pic 1 - 11 ticks (late)

Pic 2 - 17 ticks (mid)

Pic 3 - 19 ticks (early)

Hi Fitzer, Thanks for posting the variations, I have a personalized Army Holler, with the 2nd variation. 17 ticks! That seems to be the one I encounter alot of. Great info!! Best Larry

Interesting theory there so I just checked my two.
The first is initial production with the first type x guard and there are 17 graduations. The second has the 2nd type x guard (E pack 2nd variant) with a tapered tang and this also has 17.

How very odd that the one T.W. has on his site has 19. Nice dagger actually.

John, do you still collect heer daggers or have your interests shifted?

These 3 variations are the only 3 I know from Heer and Luftwaffe daggers, but we will see if there are others out there!

Interesting Thread!

Greetings

Hey Landser...I'm still collecting Armies but I've also drifted into Police Bayos. One day I'll settle down...

Hi John:

Three Hollers, all with 17 graduations. It would be interesting to establish a correlation between the number of striations on the thermometers and other characteristics. All mine with 17 graduations have tapered tangs and vertical graining on the center segment. graduations. All but the very earliest have stamped acorns on the sides of the scabbard.

Did you get out of armies because they dried up for a while? I did.

Hey Ford, nice to have your expertise back.

I also have 3 hollers:

(i) Early with Pack cross guard and fittings, detailed pommel and scabbard fittings with acorns; tapered tang (this is the Albert Geiger personalized piece I bought from you some time ago). It has 17 ticks in the TM.

(ii) Standard Holler cross guard and fittings, detailed scabbard bands but no acorns. It also has 17 ticks

(iii) Standard Holler cross guard and fittings, fittings and scabbard lack detail and quality of the other standard holler I have. It has 11 ticks.

Given your early pieces with tapered tangs have 17 ticks I am now thinking that there must have been a brief period of time during the standard Holler fittings production that the TM with 19 ticks was used as Wittmann's 19 tick TM piece also has standard fittings. Perhaps it was even issued between the 17 ticks and 11 tick TM versions. Or perhaps they reverted back to the 17 ticks a short time after using the 19 tick TM. Further input and examples required.

Here’s mine initial production crossguard slant grip.

Beautiful piece with 17 ticks...more evidence to suggest that the 19 tick maker mark was produced sometime after the initial cross guards came out. The 19 tick TM is also quite different having a slimmer font.

Tom:
Great photo of a great dagger in super condition. Love the hand enhancing. By the way, its stable mates at your web page are all equally desirable. You have a very fine collection with many pieces that most of us can only dream of.

Fitzer:
I can’t disagree with your assessment that the logo with the 19 digits is probably not early. One possible explanation is that the 17 digit thermometer was designed for a European war. However, shortly after the start of the Russian campaign, Holler may have become aware of the extreme temperature ranges encountered on the Eastern Front. You would logically expect them to respond with a thermometer that would register both the higher highs and lower lows experienced in that theater of operations. Now if any of you buy that story, I have a Holler with Berlin maker mark that I would be happy to sell you. : ) Seriously, this sting has been very useful. Thanks for starting it.

Well, that`s a good theory but you really should put the Berlin Holler up for auction & give us all a fair chance

My photographic ability is I regret very poor but this is my only early example.

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Ford, I've read more challenged theories than yours in here. I'm thinking that perhaps because Holler was a large company there could have been a rogue subsidiary that produced the 19 tick TM by using a template from an earlier period to mark their blades. So perhaps it is an earlier TM used by the firm but used later on when production of armies was at its height. Perhaps some Imperial/Weimar Holler TMs may shed further light. I'll do some research. For interest, this Bayo TM has 20 Ticks