UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons The BCN Bayonet Forum A new Baden Feld-Art Seitengewehr

I picked up a nice Baden Feld-Artillerie S71/84 Seitengewehr at a local gun show today that I thought I would share. It pays to hit the little local shows as some nice things turn up from time to time. The frog is a little rough but is original to the bayonet.

The Seitengewehr is an Extra quality bayonet that will not affix to a rifle but is an item of issue as it has matching property markings on the crossguard and scabbard.

The obverse blade is extensively etched with a blued panel for the 30th Baden Field Artillery regiment. Anyone have any information on this regiment by chance?

The reverse has a blued panel showing Artillerists in full gallop with their cannon and limber. All the designs show the artillery ball on the Pickelhauben. There is no maker.

That was an excellent find. I haven't been lucky enough to get a blued panel locally yet. I enjoy searching for that hidden gem as it is half the fun of collecting.

Thanks for sharing.

Richard

Orpo that is a stunning piece well done!!
Sean

Thank you for the kudos gentlemen. I was very pleased to find this Seitengewehr at the show as this particular show is always hit or miss with me.

I did notice that I mis-identified this bayonet as a S71/84 in my haste. It is of course the earlier S71. My mistake.

I also found out a bit of information on the unit that was provided by another collector.

The Regiment was in the 29th Feldartillerie Brigade which was the artillery element of 29th Infantry Division.

"In World War I, the division served primarily on the Western Front, seeing action at the Battle of the Frontiers and then moving north during the Race to the Sea. It participated in some of the more well-known battles and campaigns of the Western Front, including the 1916 Battle of the Somme, the later phases of the Battle of Verdun, the Second Battle of the Aisne (also known as the Third Battle of Champagne and to the Germans as the Double Battle on the Aisne and in the Champagne), and against the Allied Hundred Days Offensive"

I cleaned up the blade today and took a couple of closeup shots of the etched vignettes on the blade.

And, of course what Field Artilleryman does not like his horse? I typically see this motif on sword blades instead of bayonets.

And, lastly a motif of crossed swords and an Artillery Pickelhaube with ball finale.

Very cool thanks for showing it.

Hi George,

That is stunning piece you have there,great etching.
I have one quite similar,but diffirent and in bad shape etching.It's a little diffirent too,hilt and scabbard,am I correct that this one is being referred as M71?It's a private piece,as it has no makermark,or regimental numbers.

Thanks,
kind regards,Jeremy

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Jeremy,

Thanks for showing your M71 Seitengewehr. Yours is also called the S71 and/or Infantrie-Seitengewehr and is a private purchase Extra-Seitengewehr like mine. Yours has the steel crossguard and spring and may actually attach to a rifle. The Infantry sidearm is usually distinguished by the steel crossguard and the fairly narrow blade.

My S71 Seitengewehr is also called the Artillerie-Seitengewehr and/or M71 and typically has a wider blade than the Infantry model.

Here is a view of the sidearm after cleaning. I added the proper Imperial Troddel for the 2nd Battery of Artillery as indicated on the blade.

A closeup view of the blade etch identifying the 2nd Battery of Baden Field Artillery Regiment Nr. 30 and the proper 2nd Battery Troddel.

Looks great with the troddel.It will be hard finding an S71 in better shape than this one.
Thanks for the explanation of the diffirence between an Infanterie,and Artillary model.

Hello George.

Extra seitengewehr in general are not my thing, but this is one I would have definitely considered, especially with the beautiful blue panel etching and matching regimentals. And original frog to boot! A very nice find!

However, I'm fairly certain you have the incorrect troddel on there. It's the 2nd Bat, 5th battery, not 2nd battery, so it should be white-red-white. At least, that's what I understand. Any thoughts?

Hi Nate,

Thanks for the kudos... I was happy to find this Seitengewehr at a local gun show.

I think this time period is somewhat transitional for enlisted Troddeln but generally speaking white=1, red=2, yellow=3 for artillery for most states. The white/red/white colors would indicate the 2nd Bn, 5th Batt as you indicate. This would indeed match the unit markings on the guard but what about the blade markings? Does this etch not indicate the 2nd Battery of Baden Field Artillery Regiment No.30 or is this a Batallion indicator instead of a battery number?

George

Hey George!

Wonderful to hear from you! You are most welcome! It's really a great feeling knowing that wonderful bayos such as this can still come out of the woodwork at local shows. Sometimes I get discouraged thinking that everything worth anything out there has made its way into collections at this point.

Well, obviously, the only way to interpret both the markings on the blade and the regimental markings so that they don't conflict with each others would be to assume that the number 2 on the blade etching denotes the batallion since as you stated the regimental marking is for the 5th battery (which is implicitly in the 2nd bat).

But as you and I both know, weapons often found their way to other companies/bats within the same regiment, and it is thus possible that the regt. markings and etching were done independently of each other at different times while being carried by a soldier in different units.

I guess I would have to ask:

A. If other similarly etched ES71s show their battery or their battalion.

B. Why an ostensibly private purchased sidearm has issued unit markings on it. Is this really a privately, or perhaps more specifically, an individually purchased ES, or is it possible (and I'm fairly certain other units have done this) that the entire Baden Arty Regt purchased these for their soldiers. Perhaps each battery had their own regs regarding the unit marking of equipment, and while with the 2nd bat, no markings were required, but when transfered to the 5th bat, the battery commander required unit markings (from my limited experience, especially compared to yours, regulations regarding unit marking procedures were set on a unit basis (ie. regiment, not bat or company)).

I guess the only way to really find out would be to find other examples and compare, and even then we'll probably never know for sure. But for me, I would have to conclude that, until any other evidence suggests otherwise, that the 2 is the battalion number.

Unit marked Extra Seitengewehr pieces, whether they are a sword or a bayonet, have always confused me. There have been certain instances in which enough private purchase sidearms have been found all marked to the same unit to be able to reasonably conclude that the unit either required them to be marked as such, or purchased and issued them on their own. But then I can see an officer taking his PP sword to the armorer and telling him to mark it simply because he wanted his marked (maybe for unit pride, who knows?).

It's fun to speculate.

Regardless, it's one of the few ES71s I have ever seen that I actually like. Well done!

george a true piece of art! congrats.