#2507
03/23/2009 01:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536 |
let me know if the dagger is correct I do not have any other pictures of the dagger. thanks
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#2508
03/23/2009 07:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
Joined: Oct 2005
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#2509
03/23/2009 11:00 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 435
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 435 |
I want it!!
If you want to criticise someone first walk a mile in their shoes. Then, when they come after you, you'll be a mile ahead and they'll be barefoot.
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#2510
03/23/2009 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 113
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 113 |
I'm probably going to regret this.....but I like it! Tell us more?
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#2511
03/24/2009 03:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536 |
I am not sure if I can afford it and do not have any additional pics. What is the fair market value for something like this providing this all original an not a repro?
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#2512
03/24/2009 03:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,414
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,414 |
With the type of *$$$ you are speaking of, there should be MANY pictures. *As much as some houses.
In Memory of Joe Mann Medal of Honor Recipient July 8, 1922 � September 19, 1944
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#2513
03/24/2009 03:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
Oleg, this is difficult to tell without better pictures. There are a few things that bothers me on this SA High Leader. First, it is quite obvious that the scabbard has been releathered. Secondly, this dagger had the typical early "field upgrade" central scabbard band, however, it looks like if it has a second pattern late damascus type blade, having a rougher texture. An early field upgrade scabbard's band with a late damascus blade, hummmmmmmmmmm. This blade should have the early "double oval" Eickhorn trademark and NOT the "late over the shoulder" Eickhorn. Reverse angle of the blade would tell us that. Price range, anywhere between $ 35,000 and $ 40,000 USD.
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#2514
03/24/2009 04:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536 |
here is the other side of the dagger.
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#2515
03/24/2009 04:40 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 173
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 173 |
Looks like the one on Greg Martin Auctions, scheduled for next Monday, 3-30-09. The catalog estimate is $25,000 to $35,000. There's a lot of high end blades and a few decorations with diamonds.
Lance
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#2516
03/24/2009 08:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689 |
Looks good to me apart from the re leathering on the scabbard as well. Would need to have a good look at it at the auction to confirm definately one way or the other for sure.
Price wise $30,000-$35,000 would be a bargain if it all checks out.
Will be interesting to see what it sells for at the auction, they have a lot of daggers for sale there.
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#2517
03/24/2009 11:08 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
So far so good, it does have the proper Eickhorn maker marked. Though I'm no expert, my guts feeling tells me that this one is the real thing.
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#2518
03/24/2009 12:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536 |
does anyone have any experience dealing with them? How reliable are they?
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#2519
03/24/2009 01:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,026 |
I would not pass it up at a garage sale. As far as not being able to afford it. Ask Suzy Ormann she will tell you and let me know when you will be on the show.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to relive it" Santayana
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#2520
03/24/2009 03:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
FROM THE PICTURES, it looks very good to me. Martin auctions are very dependable and their service is very good, but prices are very high. All the CA boys will be there and no big bargains are going to be had in my opinion. Their past auctions are fairly well attended, but the phone business usually is brisk. JMO, Ron Weinand
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#2521
03/24/2009 08:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,377 |
Well,I too think its a recover and the very "solid" definition of the maiden hair disturbs me a little.But,the whole thing looks too new (near mint???)where hasit been hiding??? The Auction I guess will tell as I,m sure the "punters" will be on it.JMO Seiler
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#2522
03/24/2009 09:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
This dagger looks good, but it could be a clever fake or parts dagger. There are some apparently bogus SS daggers on the site. Check out the Alcoso and Weyersberg SS daggers there. I am not at all familiar with this auction house, but, as always, approach with caution!
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#2523
03/24/2009 09:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077 |
There's also a bogus SA Eickhorn full Rohm there. For most of the other daggers, the photos are not detailed enough to tell much.
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#2524
03/24/2009 11:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,336 Likes: 5 |
Could be the angle of the picture but what do you guys think of the blade profile????
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#2525
03/25/2009 02:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536 |
who would be an expert on the above item to get a proper authentication of the item in question?
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#2526
03/25/2009 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615 Likes: 1 |
As grumpy has mentioned there are fakes and "parts" in there. I never seen so many SS dagger scabbard ball fitting that appear to exibit the "Czech Ball". Lots of other known fakes in there even with those bad photos. Anyway, I only had one auction house where my refund was returned with no hassel. Martin was not the one.
-serge-
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#2527
03/25/2009 04:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Helllo, Doesn't this kind of thing count as a red flag around here anymore? C'mon Guys!!!
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#2528
03/25/2009 07:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689 |
Probably normal shrinkage IMO just need to take it down and check it is all numbered correctly then you will see if the handle is a replacement as they are numbered on these.
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#2529
03/25/2009 07:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945 |
Mongo I think Railgun is pointing out the grip being over the crossguard not the gap.
You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time
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#2530
03/25/2009 07:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689 |
Ed its not that bad, I have seen them from vets far worse than this. It needs a hands on but its not that bad IMO. I think we get far to paranoid about this kind of stuff, a lot of them did have a tiny step or gap in the fitting, someones probably had it to bits and put the crossguards round the wrong way or something.
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#2531
03/25/2009 08:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689 |
Look at the step on this 36, aquired directly from the SS officer who is still alive and a mint untouched example. We seem to remember they are a collection of parts, I agree you need to look out for this stuff but its not always a dead cert.
This is an early one as well! a dealer said to me its the best one he has ever seen and its nice to know they made them like that!.
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#2532
03/25/2009 08:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,689 |
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#2533
03/25/2009 08:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,977 Likes: 33
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,977 Likes: 33 |
Hi guys it is a GOOD high leader's dagger....scabbard might have been recovered but if it was it apparently was well done...one would need it in hand to see if the leather goes beneath the fittings etc...too much dialogue it is a good piece!!! No red flags that I can see at all....no need to beat the horse any further on this one cheers, Ryan
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#2534
03/25/2009 09:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
Railgun88: How many SA Honor Chained Daggers have you had in your hands? Not to say that this dagger doesn't need to be examined in person, but after 52 years in this hobby and having looked at more than a few of these Honor SAs and owned a few, I can see no real red flags from the photos of this one. Ron Weinand
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#2535
03/25/2009 10:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,304 |
I have yet to see an SA Honor dagger with a perfect fit. For some unexplained reasons, the fit on the SA Honor leader were never really perfect.
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#2536
03/26/2009 12:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Hi again Guys, As Ed has pointed out, I am NOT talking about the gap. A gap could be caused by normal Shrinkage, I am talking about the Step. I would think you wouldn't see too many that continue to GROW after they are put together. OK, 'fess up! Which one of you guys own this thing and have it up on this auction?
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#2537
03/26/2009 12:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Before the Air fills with the screams of overly Righteous Indignation! I was Just Kidding!!
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#2538
03/26/2009 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290 |
Yes Ron I have never owned one or handled one or seen one for that matter but I do own several beautiful early SA daggers and every one of them has an impeccable fit on the grip to crossguards �just dumfounds me that a dagger of this magnitude has a crappy fit like this � can someone show an early Eickhorn SA with a crappy fit like this?
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#2539
03/26/2009 03:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5 |
If you think this is bad, look at an HJ Leader or a Feldherrnhalle. No, these arent' swiss watches.
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#2540
03/26/2009 03:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Ron, The only one I have any knowledge of is the one I own. On it, The blade is NOT Original, but everything else is! and the fit of grip to crossguards is VERY Nearly Perfect! RG88
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#2541
03/30/2009 08:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 536
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OP
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SOLD FOR 19 500$ plus auction fee I think 17% from the buyer.
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#2542
05/13/2009 04:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Ron, Being around this stuff Almost as long as you have. I did not say that it was impossible that this was good. I was just pointing out what I considered would be a RED Flag. As to how many I have handled over the years, Not many (3-5). That is over and above the one I own Now. And I don't really remember ANY of them having That bad an overhang on the grip fitting, including mine. I would probably recall that! RG88
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#2543
05/13/2009 05:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,945 |
Well it must have been OK and the releathering AND the grip fit wouldn't have been a problem with me
You know you're over the hill when "Happy Hour" means Nap Time
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#2544
05/13/2009 05:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
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This SA High Leader was sold to the collector that had his items sold at this auction by Joe Pankowski some years ago. He remembers the dagger and it is original with releathering. Ron Weinand
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#2545
05/13/2009 06:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 201 |
Well, OK! But Ron, Tell me. At the risk of getting yelled at, But...Would you list something like that? "it is original with releathering." I am much happier with mine now! It is Original with a reproduction Blade and Crossguards". Sorry Man, Had to say it!! RG88
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#2546
05/13/2009 06:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 4,917 Likes: 5
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Joined: Aug 2000
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Please! The man was told the piece was re-leathered, as many SA Honor pieces are (this is common place with this particular dagger, as well as HJ Leader Daggers). Also, the price reflects the re-leathering, but this is much better than leaving the dagger sans leather. IF you are willing to pay more for an original leather piece and are able to find one, so much the better. They are raher rare you know. Ron Weinand
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