UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum ETCHED BLADE LUFTVAFFE FIRST MODEL

Hey guys, I have this engraved dagger luftwaffe first model. In my opinion, the dagger is completely original, the problem is to know if is an original period etched or after the war. Is greatly appreciated any opinion about it. Thanks in advanced.

Can you post some sharper pics of the etches struggling to decipher what they say even when blown up 400%.Blue and gilt etching used nasty things like mercury so not something to be entered into lightly

Hi,
beside the technical aspects, for what we do need better pics, this is not a military etch. It's a kind of remembrance etch for the 800yrs celebration back in 1933 of Castle Berg, which was build around 1133 near the Wupper river. On the other side there is a general remembrance etch to the 'Waffenfabrik Solingen'.
Rgds;
Hermann

It does look neat, doesn't it?

Better and closeup shots of the etch are really needed to be able to make any kind of judgment on this etch.

John

Hey guys, more pictures, I hope that the quality are better...

Well, guys SOLINGEN88 has done its job .... do you think the new photos?

The more I look, the less I like.

The borders of the etch are sloppy, the design bleeds out into and out of the etch.

Not something that I would expect from a special order, special celebration.

John

To be sure a questionable etch - but I don’t have to spend time pointing out the problems. The blade has a government property Luftwaffe acceptance mark on it. So I am sorry to have to say FAKE!!!! - IMO. But it does give me a clue to another questionable blade I saw a few years ago. FP

... unfortunately Fred Prinz is right. Such remembrence blade etchings should not appear on a blade with an acceptance mark. Accepted pieces were usually not officer daggers, officers bought their edged weaponry privately.

Both etchings are not matching each other. One was for the 800yrs celebration of an old castle in 1933, the other one for the 'Waffenfabrik Solingen' which never existed under this name imho. Of course, there were maker marks with that name on it, but in the German language it's a difference. One could write 'abc Waffenfabrik - (in) Solingen' but a general 'Waffenfabrik Solingen' never existed.
Sorry, I do have problems with that piece, maybe it's just me.
Rgds;
Hermann

Due to certain bad features of the etch (some mentioned already above; one special kind if half missing leaf see in the photograph) I don´t think it´s a period etching. Also there is no sense for me in commemorating on one side to the "blades town Solingen" and on the other side to the castle Burg.
BUT it is not right what is written here about the "acceptance mark"! The socalled mark only states that this dagger was delivered through Luftwaffe support channels nothing more and nothing less. It´s for sure NO sign for "government property" as FP mentioned above.
Naturally also officerc could obtain their dagger by buying it through LW support channels (therefore marked this way).
Regards,

Hi Wotan,
an interesting point, for sure.
These Luftwaffe daggers were not worn just from officers, also NCO's or 'Unteroffiziere' carried daggers under special circumstances, as you perfectly know. All these NCO daggers were issued from the 'Kleiderkammer'. NCO's had to return these daggers after their service time back to the Luftwaffe, they never became owners of these pieces, same with the main parts of their uniforms.

Officers bought their own uniforms and 'Blankwaffen' from tailors and/or shops, they were owner of their uniforms and daggers. They were allowed to carry even their own pistols.

The Luftwaffe 'acceptance mark from my understanding means bought from Luftwaffe and issued officially through the 'Kleiderkammer' or uniform-store to a NCO, so it was owned by the German government and had to be returned after military service time by the recipient.
Of course I'm just a student of German daggers, so I'm here to learn.
Thanks in advance.
Regards;
Hermann

Flyingdutchman, you have to differ between a "Kleiderkammer" (of a certain unit) where men and NCOs could "lend" a sidearm due to a certain dress regulation need (these sidearmes mostly were unit marked) and the official LW supply channel where men (men, NCOs and officers) could buy necessary uniform parts (beside "private" retailer channels/shops).
BTW who says that a man or a NCO could not buy a sidearm/dagger (bajonet)???
I have bought a lot of certain LW marked daggers directly from the former wearer or out of officer´s families, the nicest one, an SMF with the proper marked cardboard box, also from the relative of the officer.
Regards,

But the design is original or not?

It's hard to know if the etch is a TR type or not. The etches here are not common and perhaps unique, so pegging the period of the etch, based upon the design alone, is difficult. For some reason, perhaps the size of the blade, first model luftwaffe daggers seem to be a favorite for adding postwar etchings. There are quite a few around of one type or another, probably scaring buyers away from those that are authentic. My knowledge on these is limited, at best, but the cautionary observations made by others makes the etching highly questionable.

Hey guys, I found more information about prersentation blade of the Burg Castle in the book number 4 off Thomas Johnson on page 943-944 and 945. If you have the luck to own this book, I think it would be interesting to see this book, "German Daggers of World War II. A Photografic Reference.

Wotan is 100% correct about the Luft stamp. It in no way indicates government property. Something else to consider is that there are fakes of the "castle" etch both on 1st Lufts and HJ's. Some are DAMAST. A middle Eastern dealer who makes damascus had an HJ for sale at a recent major show. When questioned about it he said " A friend made it recently in Germany". So--take a good look at these. The HJ fooled many experienced collectors. It was VERY high quality blue and gold damast.

Hello: Houston
I also talked to this dealer about his damast HJ with the Castle Berg etch... He told me he was (selling it for a friend ;)) I was very frank on what he had... I'm talking about this piece only.. Regards: James P.S. As I have the Johnson book and have seen a different HJ Castle Berg knife in there...

Hi Jim--Yes I know--but it makes you wonder about all of these. Have you determined by inspection that any are period?

No,I have not....But I have only handled one (same one you saw) and that one was not period..