UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum RAILWAY WATER PROTECTION DAGGER

Hey guys, I would like to know your opinion about this dagger water Railway Water Protection Police dagger . I think it is original, but I'm not familiar with this type of daggers. Thank you very much in advance...

The only accepted versions I have seen of these, in hand and in pictures, have been silver, not gold coloured.

John

John, I understand what you say but this statement does nothing in reference to the originality or otherwise of the dagger. IMO, I would not have logic to back the dagger so perfect and error in the color of the paint. Thank you very much for your opinion

" A continuing controversy exist among German edged weapon collectors concerning the existence of an original gilt fineshed model"

I found this explanation in the book "German Daggers of world war" on page 830, the author Thomas M. Johnson ...

Check Craig Gottleib's site I think he has one for sale.

I know Fred Steven has been extensively researching these and has evidence to support them being original.
Although I often strongly disagree with many of his theories I would like to hear his thoughts on this dagger.
Best Wishes,
Bob

Craig's for sale item is silver, not gold.

John

Hi John!
I know, and it is the gold ones that Fred is studying.
Best Wishes,
BOb

Well, hopefully Fred is a regular of this forum and can give us your valuable opinion on this dagger. Thank you very much for all you guys, you doing this to be the best forum in the world of daggers

Bueno Fred Steven, espero que me digas que te parece....se que es muy rara pero me gusta mucho.....toni

Sr.Solinge88, that you are in gold ..... pronunciarannn few people!! but surely there are professionals in this forum! wowww!! gold

I also would like to see Fred's 'supporting evidence'.

-serge-

Mr. Fred Steven Well we are 2 and we would like to see your supporting evidence; .... Spain is Europe ..... thanks in advance. Toni

If anyone knows Fred it would be nice if they informed him of this thread.
Hasta Pronto Amigos!
Roberto

This dagger this last year in Kassel and anyone who saw it live and direct the bad ... got it for only one that wanted to buy it (but it costs a lot) said he did not buy it because it was golden ..
Anyone know if Eickhorn In the catalog had the power obcion buy in Dorado finish ??
Anyone know weights and measures of this dagger ?? One skilled !! thanks Toni

After three thousand visits, nobody has been able to reach any conclusion.


I noticed the dagger Craig Gottlieb seems that in the part near the rings off the scabbard, there is a very clear golden color that could deal with the first layer of gold paint.

Only is an opinión...

I do not believe in the existence of a period original, neither "silver" nor "gold". I know it was offered for sale in the Eickhorn 1938 Kundendienst, but so was a Diplo' dirk. Jmo.

Remember the old saying .. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER

Mr. Barry says that you never existed according to this dagger? on which it relies to make this statement ?.
Mr. Damast you just put a phrase (that mean you also have no knowledge of this dagger ??

We must never confuse knowledge with wisdom. The first serves to make a living; Wisdom helps us to live.
(Sorcha Carey)

I would like the knowledge of someone who does know something about this dagger ..
Greetings and thank you very much

I usually value the opinions based on knowledge ... Therefore, I will continue believing in Thomas Johnson or Thomas Wittman who haven't doubt about the existence of this dagger.

That is the beauty of these forums.. Why did we not just say this all up front..It would have saved time.. If the two Toms think that they made GOLD Railway protection daggers (therefore they are real) Way are we posting here at all. Well I asked a higher power Yes guys even a higher power than the dagger grand master And his reaction is in the picture below.. He gave it a thumbs up!
Having a little fun
I find many(competent) collectors have spent much time and money gaining KNOWLEDGE in there collecting field. That is way some keep there WISDOM to themselves. (James Brown)

Jim,

Best to leave politics out of this. The subject is interesting and worth pursuing.

Season's Greetings,

Dave

Who is selling the gold one?

Well ,Dave I could have posted the Pope with thumbs up or for that fact any other person I guess.
yes, it is worth pursuing. But sounds like judgement has already been made.

From what I see in this photo of the pommel, it looks to me that there was wear in this part, then the coating was applied.
I for one do believe in Gold General Daggers, however this one would not be for my collection.

This goes well guys, Bary dont belive that the water protection daggers exist and Serge belive that this daggers existed, even the golden,Damast talk about other things, Fantastic!!!

All opinions are welcome, I think that is very interesting topic.

Another photo

More photos

Hello SOLINGEN88, do you want to buy this dagger or have you already bought this dagger?
Regards,

No sir, this dagger is from my friend and at first just want to know if it is original or not.

Regards

May I ask how your friend did get this dagger?
Regards,

Hi Wotan, the dagger comes from the collection of the granfather off my friend, unfortunately, this person died years ago. His grandson is trying to put things in order.

Regards

SOLINGEN88, thank you for your fast and detailed reply. I thought there would be at least some knowledge about the dagger from the source where it is coming. Now I understand that there isn´t any - any more.
As you already have noticed, this model dagger is highly controversial, some points already have been touched. The members which did contribute to this thread, eg JohnZ, RFI, Bary_Brown, DAMAST - just to name some of them, are experienced and advanced collectors. Their opinions, even when controversial, should be valued and appreciated, at least I do so.
Even very rare daggers as eg. the watercustom dagger can be found in period pics. But there is no pic (up to now to my best knowledge) which shows this RRWPP dagger. There ia also no written source (beside the EICKHORN list) concerning this dagger. These could be small hints (no proof) that this dagger never was produced.
In the early days I did proof that, if it was ever produced by EICKHORN, it would have been produced in a gold finish. This thread, as most threads with valuable knowledge at GD.C, is gone to time and I will not repeat the proof.
Concerning the dagger from your friend: It is double hard to do statements on such a dagger only from pics but because of certain features (sorry, no I will not reveal them) I personally tend to believe that the dagger is no original one. Perhaps an inspection by an experienced collector (not me) could change this opinion which is based just on your pics here.
Just my personal opinion, regards,

Wotan Hi, I see you're a brave person who have interest in finding the truth, gesture that honors you.

Well, referring to question if this daggers existed or not, of course I accept the discrepancies, but if we say that there never was this dagger, are questioning the honesty of many authors of books about the this dagger. I telling Thomas Wittman and Thomas Johnson, but I could tell more than half a dozen.

If we doubt the real existence of this dagger, maybe we should delete the wording of this section MISC DAGGER FORUM, LAND AND WATER CUSTOMS, not you.

If we doubt the existence of this dagger, we question the honesty of all dealers that have for sale this dagger.

I'm willing to put all necessary pictures to try to clarify the truth, it's my only motive.

Again, the dagger is not mine and I haven't commercial interest, my only interest is talking about this dagger is an original piece of the Third Reich or not, honestly, I think is the main mission of this formidable discussion forum.

Just my personal opinion, regards.



Come on guys, the discussion is open, all opinions are welcome

I think it's natural for collectors to be squeamish with such a dagger considering the prohibitive cost, relative rarity of period info/documentation on the dagger & the simple fact that this model dagger can be effectively constructed from mostly period parts of other dagger models.

I'm not impugning the motives of any dealer selling such an item, per se, but dealers in a general sense would have a monetary motive to sell such an item. After all, there is some well intentioned speculation that the dagger, while appearing the Eickhorn catalogue, was never actually put into production or issued.

There will always be detractors when there is a scarcity (or complete lack) of period documentation. Perhaps some period pics will surface, or an article, or a reference in something other than a commercial catalogue, but for now, this item will always be a source of controversy. Such questions keep the hobby interesting since it's obvious we don't know all there is to know.

There are two such for sale right now... both are silver versions, both Eickhorns.

John

The statement above is so true as there is unpublished documents out in private collections..
Weitze is selling what he calls a Gold one also.

How many have been seen so far?

CG's website says the current one is the third he has handled.

The silver version I am sure is legitimate, I am not speaking of one specific example but that type of dagger. The gold version I have no opinion either way. I have heard of silver examples having veteran purchased, rare but it has come from reliable sources.

Ironic but locally I was offered a gold RWPP dagger maybe a week ago. Didn't get to see it in hand but had just general misgivings about it based on the gilt finish.