UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Help please unknown dress dagger???

Hi,I have a sawtooth dress dagger with shoulder hanger and portepee made by E&F Horster with black horn grips and gold gilded fittings. The chrome plated scabbard has a gold gilded clam-shell with what looks like flames on it. I don't know if it may be a German or Austrian fireman's dress dagger or what it is. I don't think I have an option to upload pictures that I can see.Any help would be appreciated.Thank you

Interesting sounding piece, sending you a PM.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

Posting for Viking Rune.

A very interesting looking piece bearing more than small resemblance to the standard Feuerwehr sawback bayonet. Definitely Feuerwehr IMHO based on that clamshell with the flames. I think the sawback blade & recurved crossguard help but are not, in themselves, dispositive.

I'd say the Horster logo places it to before the 3R but it could very possibly have been worn into it, prior to the order unifying the local Feuerwehr units into a cohesive State run entity. Initially I thought this weapon could be Austrian since it's a little more on the gaudy side which I find the Austrian Feuerwehr edged weapons tend to be rather than their German counterparts. The silver scabbard with the gilt fittings make me think maybe this piece was for someone of officer's rank or perhaps a commandant.

The knot doesn't look like a FW knot per se, to me it looks more like that of State of Wurttemburg with the red & black, I don't think the knot is Austrian in origin but would be very interested in what ORPO thinks the knot is.

The modified frog is very similar to one I have on a short sawback with the '33-'34 Eickhorn logo, I purchased this rig indirectly from the vet that brought it back to the US. The over the shoulder harness is similar to another rig I've previously seen on an early fire bayonet. Very stupidly I didn't purchase it from Jeff Slaker, live & learn I guess.

Great piece, many thanks for showing.

Thank you much for posting my pictures. I hope someone can identify this dagger. I also believe it must have been for a higher ranking officer. Regards Dail

- yeah thats really a nice looking piece!

Hopefully someone has an advert, info, something on it...

Thank you Gaspare. I would think someone would have an old catalog or some reference book with it in it. It is different to me in a couple things. Like the black horn grips and the gilded clam shell on the scabbard instead of on the dagger. I collect more of the traditional Third Reich daggers,knives and swords so this caught my eye.

An interesting Hirschfanger. I looked through my catalogs and could not find anything like it. My first thought would be that it was made for export but nothing like this in my export catalogs either. The Portepee could also be a wide variety of things. Not a Wurttemberg regulation knot and not an regulation Adjutant knot from the various states either. The construction of the clamshell is also not typical. I am stumped I am afraid.

Wow, I'm shocked as hell that George is stumped. I love a little mystery, keeps the hobby that much more interesting.

It's an interesting piece, the only maker prior to this that I have seen with the clamshell attached to the top of the scabbard is WKC, this particular double Horster mark I have only seen on 3rd reich period pieces, I certainly do not profess to be an expert on Horster marks but I have not seen it on earlier pieces myself.
I personally would class this as a hirschf�nger but not for hunting or forestry use,certainly I think for some fire related department, I love that clamshell and the simple black grips, I've not seen anything like this before, very uncommon to say the least.
The shape of the knot with the long stem and fairly flat ball reminds me of other Imperial knots I've seen, I would imagine that it has been brought over into the later period, there is a good chance that you'll not find this piece as a regular pattern in any catalouge, it could have been made specially for the owner.

I like it a lot.

Gary

Thank you Gary. It really caught my eye when my friend picked it up and offered it to me. As I said I'm more into the more traditional WW2 daggers,swords etc. but I had never seen anything like this. The real black horn grips were very unusual to me on a German dagger plus the clam shell on the scabbard.I hope someone comes across a catalog or photo that may nail it down. Dail