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#259477 02/11/2012 04:08 PM
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den70 Offline OP
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Another comparison of RLB daggers. Unfortunately, this comparison can not be entirely correct because we are comparing different manufacturers daggers SMF and Alcoso, but as you may have noticed there is a copy of the common symptoms.

RLB 12.04.09 00201.jpg (104.15 KB, 173 downloads)
RLB 12.04.09 00203.jpg (103.36 KB, 173 downloads)

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den70 #259478 02/11/2012 04:10 PM
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The form of the scabbard has a difference, setting the average fitting elsewhere is hardly possible due to feature the manufacturer.

RLB 12.04.09 00202.jpg (120.96 KB, 170 downloads)

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den70 #259480 02/11/2012 04:11 PM
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Metal parts - the pommel and guard smaller. Which is caused by shrinkage during casting. Technological signs carved to give greater certainty.

RLB 12.04.09 00208.jpg (107.29 KB, 171 downloads)
RLB 12.04.09 00209.jpg (115.94 KB, 168 downloads)

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den70 #259481 02/11/2012 04:12 PM
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pommel

RLB 12.04.09 00210.jpg (114.51 KB, 167 downloads)

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den70 #259483 02/11/2012 04:15 PM
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The form of the handle is different from the originals. On the counterfeit RLB handle thicker form, and have adifferent shape.

The sign of RLB also has differences.

RLB 12.04.09 00206.jpg (121.98 KB, 164 downloads)
RLB 12.04.09 00207.jpg (110.02 KB, 163 downloads)

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den70 #259484 02/11/2012 04:18 PM
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The usual mark on the fake tang - "H". but not all.

logo.

RLB 12.04.09 00204.jpg (114.31 KB, 159 downloads)
RLB 12.04.09 00205.jpg (118.91 KB, 158 downloads)

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den70 #259486 02/11/2012 04:40 PM
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Den,

Thank you for posting another excellent display between an original & reproduction RLB dagger. It's interesting to see the side by side comparison & difference in size, shape & quality.

Although rare, I do believe SMF manufactured RLB daggers. The ones I've read about, & there were only a few, were all 1st model officers' daggers & all were of excellent quality. The interesting variant on SMF RLB daggers was a soft, leather only scabbard with staples used instead of screws. The scabbards resembled DLV & transitional Luftwaffe 1st model scabbards in their construction. Most recently, I think Tom Johnson sold one 4 or 5 years ago for big money & I think it's pictured in his more recent coffee table book series. I'll check to confirm this in a bit.

As far as other SMF RLB daggers, I've seen a few, 3 to be exact. 2 of them were 1st model EM models & 1 was a 2nd model officer, at one point owned by Sokel. Is this the one you're showing?

3.JPG (51.24 KB, 147 downloads)

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Here's a shot of the scabbard which seems to depict the same short distance between scabbard fittings.

4.JPG (50.63 KB, 145 downloads)

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This 1st model EM, purportedlt by SMF was from Eban a year or two ago offered by a seller in Poland. Overall the dagger had an unusual look to it & was listed at a buy it now of $1800. Note the rostfrei in the SMF logo & the scratches presumably designed to offset what I believe to be a lack of crossgraining.

SMfRLB1EM.jpg (85.55 KB, 141 downloads)

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Another 1st model by SMF, this one posted by GD member Nacho. From the picture, this example seems to have an unusually high center ridge.

SMFRLB1EM2.JPG (41.26 KB, 140 downloads)

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Originally Posted By: Billy G.
Den,
As far as other SMF RLB daggers, I've seen a few, 3 to be exact. 2 of them were 1st model EM models & 1 was a 2nd model officer, at one point owned by Sokel. Is this the one you're showing?


All daggers that I show are directly related to the Sokol. Or were purchased directly from him or from other people with his participation (consultation or advice). I personally had bought TN Leader and RLB Leaders 36 and 38 from he, My colleagues purchased the other models that I show.


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den70 #259492 02/11/2012 05:56 PM
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Den,

Thanks for the clarification. I, as I'm sure many others, would be interested in seeing your comparison pictures of a TeNo Leader's dagger.

I did a little digging in my references, Tom Johnson's newer coffee table book series didn't have the 1st model RLB Leader by SMF. There is ; however, one pictured in Tom Johnson's original series, volume VIII on page 65, owned at the time by Tom Wittmann. There's an obverse & reverse shot of the dagger in it's scabbard. Sadly the blade isn't shown & the pictures are not that good. One can see though on the reverse how the staples were utilized to affix the scabbard fittings to the soft shell scabbard. There's also a similar 1st model RLB Leader with soft shell scabbard by Rudolf Büchel on page 66.

There's also a 2nd model RLB Leader's dagger by SMF on pages 72 & 73, this one owned at the time by Tom Johnsons. Interestingly on page 73 the crossguards of an Alcoso 1st model Leader & an Alcoso 2nd model Leader are held side to side & there is a noticeable difference in the size of the fittings.


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I know nothing about RLBs, HJ leaders and etc...no doubt and I admit it,,but when someone has a gut feeling about something 9 times out of 10 your feeling is right,, I feel something strange is going on,, with these last incredible too good to be true postings. I am the type of person that will admit when i am wrong and I have no pride to stand in my way in doing so. So If im wrong than so be it,,but I think everyone IMO needs to really slow down and take a step back. My thoughts are of the cautious nature and its easier to see through words than it is anymore to see through high priced fakes. Yes I am fooled by these high priced fakes and so where alot of the well seasoned collectors also. My advice is not to be too quick in "popping the celebration cork",,There are many variations and one original example should not be taken as text book. To match a fake to an original is dangerous ground to walk on in regards to just one fake example. If I sound negative,,that is not my intention. Be careful guys ,,everyday that passes is getting harder and a frog in boiling water will not jump out because it will be too late.


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Originally Posted By: Billy G.
Den,

Thanks for the clarification. I, as I'm sure many others, would be interested in seeing your comparison pictures of a TeNo Leader's dagger.

I did a little digging in my references, Tom Johnson's newer coffee table book series didn't have the 1st model RLB Leader by SMF. There is ; however, one pictured in Tom Johnson's original series, volume VIII on page 65, owned at the time by Tom Wittmann. There's an obverse & reverse shot of the dagger in it's scabbard. Sadly the blade isn't shown & the pictures are not that good. One can see though on the reverse how the staples were utilized to affix the scabbard fittings to the soft shell scabbard. There's also a similar 1st model RLB Leader with soft shell scabbard by Rudolf Büchel on page 66.

There's also a 2nd model RLB Leader's dagger by SMF on pages 72 & 73, this one owned at the time by Tom Johnsons. Interestingly on page 73 the crossguards of an Alcoso 1st model Leader & an Alcoso 2nd model Leader are held side to side & there is a noticeable difference in the size of the fittings.


Dear Billy.

Sorry for my bad English, I don't correct understand what pictures SMF need make. Whant you to see the screws holding the ring on the surface of the sheath? I will make need photo.


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den70 #259522 02/12/2012 02:39 AM
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Den,

I wasn't asking to see the screws on the SMF, I was mentioning the SMF RLB pictured in Tom Johnson's book & noting that the the scabbard fittings on that dagger were held in with staples similar to the ones on early DLV/Luft 1 daggers.

What I'd love to see is a comparison of a suspect TeNo Leader with an original.


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