UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Information about a dagger

Hi, I'm new here, have no knowledge about these at all but I would really appreciate any help you can give me. I don't know if I'm adding the picture into this message correctly, if not and someone can explain how that would be appreciated. What Im looking for is any information on a rough date it would have been made, and an idea of value. this is my grandfathers, who is 91, and we are taking inventory of all of his belongings and he has asked me to try to find a value for this dagger. Just for interests sake, heres the story of how he got the dagger-

He was in stalag luft 3 during the digging of the tunnels from the great escape, a "goon watcher" as they called them in the pow camp, and then was moved out with a number of other including Wally Floody I believe and a few others to another compound. When the camp was overtaken by the russians, they held them back for a while and didn't release them back to the allies. So they were getting antsy and weren't sure what was happening outside the prison, and a couple of them, my grandfather included, decided to go for a walk outside the walls to see what they could see. After a couple of minutes of hearing gunfire, they came across a dead german soldier with this dagger, my grandpa picked up the dagger and they decided it was not the best place for them and they headed back into the prison. A while later, a convoy of jeeps came to take them back to the allies, and the russians denied it. My grandpa and another prisoner picked their spot and took off, stole a truck and drove off leaving everything they had behind, including this dagger.

Back in canada, 1 year or so after returning, my grandpa, who was from austin, manitoba, had moved to ontario, and he got a call from a fellow POW who was in Toronto. This guy had been trying to get a hold of my grandpa for a while, had tracked down his parents phone # in manitoba, and called them, and was given his number here in ontario. They reunited and he gave my grandpa the dagger, which he had picked up for him before leaving the prison camp, completely unexpectedly for my grandpa. He also gave him back a log book, which is full of amazing pictures, stories, and anecdotes from his fellow prisoners, including many of the guys from the great escape.

He kept this hidden for 65 years, nobody in my family knew he had this dagger, and while we were going through some of his stuff we came across this dagger(among some other neat finds) and he told us the story. Any help would be greatly appreciated. The blade is engraved with "alles fur deutchland", has the SA symbol(which I had to look up and which lead me here), is engraved with "FW Jordan Solingen" with a picture that looks like a little man and woman or something, and has "DRGM " on the strap. 3 pictures are below uploaded to picpaste.
Thank you
picture in the sheath
out of sheath
handle

Great story! your dagger is a rare maker and is very desirable with collectors,, without seeing the condition of the blade itself it is very difficult to give you an assessment of what its worth. The condition of the blade will decide its worth. From what I can see on the outside it is in decent condition,, but if you may,, could you submit photos of the blade? regards Larry

Ok thanks a lot for that information, my mother took these pictures and sent them to me, I don't have the best pictures, only a couple, I will take better pictures next time I am there or get her to take some better ones and I'll post them in a week or so. We had no idea about what was important or not unfortunately.these are the only pictures of the blade I have-
http://picpaste.com/IMGP0039-67lMydyM.JPG
http://picpaste.com/IMGP0043-yZ643fmA.JPG

Very possibly the log book may be far more valuable than the dagger, although I'm sure you would never want to sell such a great keep-sake. Charlie

Oh ya we don't plan on selling either the dagger or the book, we are valuing things only because he is starting to give a lot of his stuff away to his kids and grandkids, and wants to try to keep things as even as possible in terms of value. We just want an idea if its worth say, $50, or $500.

I agree with Siegfried B ,it is a rare maker and is very desirable with collectors, condition looks pretty good so your closer to the $500.00 + mark for this with the hangers

I'm also curious, does anyone have information about this "FW Jordan"? again, with absolutely no knowledge of anything relating to these daggers, it seems like an odd name for a german company/maker at that time.

sdot, Google "FW Jordan Solingen" and you will get results!

sdot you would be surprised of the amount of maker names that do not sound German,, just check out the side bar on the right and click on "dagger maker marks"

Yes I have googled it and found that it still exists but seems to have been bought by a larger german manufacturer. Thats about all I can find though. When I told my grandpa I had got some information he passed on a couple of more questions that he is really curious about. I don't know if anybody here would know or would be able to direct me to somewhere to find the answers, but again thanks for the help you've all provided. His questions were-
Does anyone know a timeline on when this would have been made?
and
Is there any way to be able to trace this to a location where this soldier would have been from? for instance, did FW Jordan supply certain units with their daggers while another maker supplied another unit?

My grandpa has a ton of stories from the war and has a lot of knowledge, he's been featured in many books and last year was involved in a reconciliation with a german man from a town he bombed. This is one mystery to him though as to why this lone german soldier was there at the camp when it had been overtaken by the russians.

As far as the dagger is concerned ,, the manufacture date would be 1933-34.
Supplying requests came from the High leadership of the SA and contracted makers to make certain amounts to be distributed to SA districts. Your Dagger was distributed to the Hessen district as the reverse of the lower crossguard is marked with an "He" for Hessen. If you look to the right of your screen there is a sidebar marked GDC reference library,, scroll down to "dagger SA/NSKK group marks" and you will see a map along with all the districts and abbreviations. You will see the Hessen district was situated near Frankfurt, of the western part of Germany.
FW Jordan was a cottage maker, which did not produce daggers on a grand scale unlike Eickhorn, Ernst Pack. These 2 makers I mentioned are very large producers and supplied all SA districts and 3 SS distribution center districts.
When asked or contracted most of these smaller makers pretty much supplied locally ( or within the region) and was somewhat rare if they suppied an SA district at the opposite side of the country.
It was up to the High leadership of the SA where these daggers were to be distributed and not FW Jordan supplying the units themselves.
Sdot.. any chance that you get immerse yourself in your grandfathers stories, because those stories will hold a higher value than the dagger itself. Your grandfather is the true war trophy that is still alive to live and tell about it. Those stories of his , are what is going to make your dagger valuable to you alone,, and not someone else because your grandfather is yours. He has been blessed to live such a long life and be able to tell you about it,, take the time now while he is still around,, and listen. That will be a gift unlike any other that he has given you. Grandparents arer amazing,, full of wisdom and History. Regards Larry

Wow thanks a lot. I really wasn't sure I'd be able to find out any information about the dagger, I will pass it on to him and believe me this information will make him happy. I was speaking to him on the phone last night prior to posting my last questions and he was amazed that I was able to find out any info about it and very happy. And yes I definitely always enjoy listening to his stories, my grandparents were more like a 2nd set of parents for me growing up, I probably know more of his stories than anyone else. I appreciate your message.

To be more accurate I would say manufacture was 1934- 1935. Mike

Thank you, here are a few better pictures they took and sent to me-
http://picpaste.com/IMGP0045-EPs30Y1a.JPG
http://picpaste.com/IMGP0045-POgmOm4m.JPG
http://picpaste.com/IMGP0046-yrwEmQwf.JPG
http://picpaste.com/IMGP0048-xKdmKiID.JPG