Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OK, we all love EARLY Heer daggers with there slant grips and wonderful hand work, I am one of their greatest fans! But I never hear the distinction being made in reference to Luftwaffe second model daggers between the "era's" of production. I believe the initial production Luft's were quite special too! I would like to ask that those out there with the early prewar 37' to 39' made lufts sporting the great hand worked guards and pommels PLEASE post them here so they may be enjoyed! We may just discover which makers got in on the initial production run of these beautiful daggers in the process!!

I will start the thread with two of my earliest examples. First is a Klaas made example with Pack fittings that are darkly burnished and hand worked in true early Klaas fashion. Thin aluminum grip wire, another Klaas trait from the beginning. This one has a PLATED blade,commonly seen on early Luft's.....

IMG_2909.JPG (72.82 KB, 202 downloads)
IMG_2910.JPG (85.13 KB, 202 downloads)
IMG_2911.JPG (67.71 KB, 203 downloads)
IMG_2912.JPG (63.75 KB, 203 downloads)
IMG_2913.JPG (77.59 KB, 200 downloads)
Last edited by heers68; 01/28/2012 11:05 PM.

It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
MORE>>>

IMG_2915.JPG (77.29 KB, 200 downloads)
IMG_2916.JPG (56.12 KB, 198 downloads)

It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Next is a initial production Clemen & Jung. I haven't seen a earlier configuration used by this maker, Pack scabbard and the early "round looking" pommel seen on various initial Luft 2nd producers daggers. Perhaps a Pack product too?, or maybe another maker like WKC? Grip wire twisted in the style ONLY used by C&J, and a distinctive way of hand working the eagles breast. Blue leather buffer and a second buffer used UNDER the ferrell! Very unusual!

IMG_2917.JPG (68.96 KB, 195 downloads)
IMG_2918.JPG (78.78 KB, 193 downloads)
IMG_2919.JPG (66.99 KB, 195 downloads)
IMG_2920.JPG (66.38 KB, 186 downloads)
IMG_2921.JPG (65.61 KB, 187 downloads)

It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Clemen & Jung used a "matte" finish on there blades that is also unique, and a two sided maker mark! Another C&J exclusive.....

IMG_2930.JPG (60.15 KB, 185 downloads)
IMG_2922.JPG (76.23 KB, 186 downloads)
IMG_2923.JPG (73.51 KB, 186 downloads)
IMG_2925.JPG (50.85 KB, 183 downloads)
IMG_2929.JPG (44.02 KB, 185 downloads)

It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Kevin beautiful pictures and daggers. Some great information you are providing. You don’t hear much if anything about tapered tang 2nd lufts but they do exist. Here is my early Pack 2nd model tapered tang nickel plated blade. The scabbard and hilt is silver plated some nice hand work to the pommel and crossgaurd. I only know of two Pack 2nd model Luftwaffe’s with this maker mark the other resides in Canada.





Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Another Pack this dagger is also silver plated with a nickel plated blade. Dagger has extensive hand enhancing to the pommel-crossguard and scabbard bands. I have never seen 2nd model scabbard bands with this much hand work. The pommel is also personalized.






Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
S
Offline
S
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,615
Likes: 1
Here's a unit marked 2nd luft by the maker -Buchel..
Tom, Nice monogram on the pommel. smile







Last edited by Serge (aka Wagner); 01/29/2012 06:40 AM.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 113
O
Offline
O
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 113
here is my Weyersberg with a dark red grip.

Foto0657 (Small).jpg (37.86 KB, 151 downloads)
Foto0658 (Small).jpg (47.75 KB, 152 downloads)
Foto0659 (Small).jpg (50.73 KB, 151 downloads)
Foto0660 (Small).jpg (49.06 KB, 152 downloads)
Foto0662 (Small).jpg (53.66 KB, 150 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Offline
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,980
Likes: 4
Gents,

Man, those are some fine second models, wonderful photography to boot.

Thanks for sharing these great examples! wink

Bill

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
L
Offline
L
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,480
Lovely daggers all. I think the aquisition of decent collectable luftwaffe II daggers is one of the most challenging.

I foolishly parted with an early Eickhorn & Pack both in fine condition simply because I was fortunate to get them early in my collecting and at that time did not realise how dificult they would be to replace. I have been looking for the right pieces at a fair price now for years!

95% of what I see offered anywhere are not in my opinion collectable in quality or condition. With a few exceptions the production quality and materials were IMO inferior and they have not generally held up well over the years. Good quality and good condition II`s now command a very high price for what is a very common type.

Oli, your Weyersberg is an absolute belter! Love that grip!!


War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 422
Offline
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 422
Heers68 Good post, I show my Dagger Luftwaffe second model.

Official Dagger 2 nd model Luftwaffe marking "Eickhorn" for the type of label I can know that the squirrel belongs to the period between 1937 and 1941, excellent workmanship and well preserved as seen in pictures ...






Do you know that period belongs my dagger? I think the first but I'm not sure ...

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Tom, Your Pack lufts are killer! The pommels alone on early Packs set them apart! Do you think besides the Heer ferreled Packs that your "Horseshoe only" marked Pack is there initial product?? Do you think there was a Pack luft put out with the "without the horseshoe" MM? Lastly, is your white grip solid trolon? Don't see many like that if it is...

Serge, Your Buchel is a rarely seen maker! I think it is a mid period example though, what do you think??

Oli, As said here allready, SMOKIN grip on you nice SMF!! Does it have as plated blade?

Vassago, Your Eick is a nice one and I think it is an earlier example with the rounder pommel previous to the intro of the "heart shaped" pommel!! Well done! Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Tom, forgot to add.. Your Packs do show that that producer did use springy wire very early in their run, but they did'nt on the earliest examples with the heer ferrels in my experience. What do you think? Also,that scabbard on your second Pack is very special!! Very nice work there! Kevin.

Last edited by heers68; 01/30/2012 02:52 AM.

It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,023
Likes: 1
Love the detail on that Pack pommel.
Kev, if you ever tire of that Klaas you know who to call....
grin

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
I have a 35-41 seated squirrel Eickhorn with a waffenamt stamp on the obverse.


Obverse.JPG (39.92 KB, 153 downloads)
Reverse.JPG (39.73 KB, 154 downloads)
Obverse Grip.JPG (38.69 KB, 154 downloads)
Obverse Pommel.JPG (39.54 KB, 154 downloads)
Reverse Grip.JPG (39.04 KB, 153 downloads)
Reverse Pommel.JPG (41.07 KB, 154 downloads)
TM.JPG (41.2 KB, 152 downloads)
Waffen amp stamp.JPG (40.34 KB, 152 downloads)
Last edited by JohnZ; 01/31/2012 05:11 AM.

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Offline
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,290
Kevin yes I think my horseshoe only (2nd mark) pack is initial production. If you go by the maker marks and you have to - it certainly was made after the Heer ferruled 2 lufts with the early small Siegfried mark IMO the horseshoe (2nd mark) was used in 1937 the same year the 2nd model was introduced for wear. This is one heavy well made dagger. What I find strange is this dagger seems to be of much better quality then the Heer ferruled small Siegfried marked daggers. Of course Pack went to the large mark in 38 and the last pack mark you see on the 2nd lufts. Kevin the pommel on the white gripped 38 marked Pack is frozen so I don’t know if it is wood cored or plaster filled I suspect its wood cored. Kevin I find that the Heer ferruled 2nd lufts are very rare I have never seen one for sale and by the pictures I have seen they seem to be of inferior quality to my 37 marked example makes me wonder ? How many have you seen out side of the Wittmann book? Of course I have only seen two with the 37 mark like mine so?


Collecting Interests - Heer Daggers - Waffenrock - Portraits - http://WW2-Collector.com
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 2
Offline
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,717
Likes: 2
Great 2nd Lufts for sure,, Nice photos WW2,, very crispy and clear. Larry


Historical Stewardship is a Trusted Honor that must be kept!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,263
Likes: 1
Gents,
beautiful daggers, thanks for sharing!
I have an early Paul Weyersberg in my collection.
Plated blade, waffenamt and hand worked pommel.

Hope you like it.

Janos

obverse.jpg (105.76 KB, 94 downloads)
xguard.jpg (111.51 KB, 93 downloads)
TM.jpg (103.01 KB, 93 downloads)
swaz.jpg (99.05 KB, 92 downloads)
pommel2b.jpg (100.03 KB, 91 downloads)
Last edited by Janos; 02/05/2012 11:58 PM.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Offline
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814
Likes: 18
Janos:

That is a beauty of a Weyersberg!

John


Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
OP Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,647
Likes: 2
Janos, A real beauty there! Thanks for posting..Kevin.


It's ALL in the DETAILS!!.......

Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,263,874 SS Bayonets
1,762,163 Teno Insignia Set
1,131,138 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Mastering Mono: A Guide to Shopify Theme Customization
by Slash Theme - 04/19/2024 11:10 AM
Overslept a development???
by wotan - 04/15/2024 03:30 PM
Japanese Dagger
by Mikee - 04/14/2024 04:48 PM
Unmarked Kriegsmarine Dagger
by Coyote_Kyle - 04/12/2024 07:07 PM
Das Alte Schutzenscheibe (The old Shooting Target)
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 04/10/2024 09:52 PM
Latest New Posts
Mastering Mono: A Guide to Shopify Theme Customization
by Slash Theme - 04/19/2024 11:10 AM
HR on Ratisbons auction
by Stephen - 04/19/2024 06:59 AM
Das Alte Schutzenscheibe (The old Shooting Target)
by C. Wetzel-20609 - 04/18/2024 08:33 PM
Study and learning materials
by Stephen - 04/18/2024 07:41 PM
Overslept a development???
by sellick8302@rogers.com - 04/18/2024 01:13 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,668
Posts329,035
Members7,519
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
8 members (ed773, Nietzsche, ollar, Slash Theme, Vern, Honestmike, Documentalist, Evgeniy), 611 guests, and 96 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5