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Looking for Feedback from collectors if they have any interest in Jewelry/Pendants of their favorite Dagger Maker. Cast in Silver
They could also be used as a key or watch fob
Enclosed is a photo of some wax models
Thanks
Newton

What would they cost?

If you make one with the Paul Seilheimer DOG logo, I would be very interested...

Mmmm…. Undine might me nice too now that I think about it….

I would be interested in the Kolping logo (the beer stein logo).

I'm thinking $85.00 with the cost of silver
Good clear pics of logos would help if you have them. What is the Undine logo? Mermaid?
Thanks
Newton

I would be interested in the EPack logo if possible.


Stingray

Yes the intricate Siegfried Waffen with horseshoe MM is a beauty!

If the maker is still in business,could these be considered trademark infringement?

Rich,
My thoughts exactly. I was thinking copyright infringement.


Rich

Not sure what makers are still in business
If you know of any a HEADSUP would be appreciated
Thanks
Newton

I hardy think a few (& let`s be realistic it would just be that) are going to draw any attention.
I think it is more like free advertising from a moral if not legal perspective.

I`m pretty sure one of our well known members has an Eickhorn tatoo. Good job they are not still in business or maybe he would have to have his arm removed. I really do not think it is worth bothering about unless you are going to produce them in millions and advertise on TV.

You´ll be fine.

Go for it!

I live in a small town of under 1000 people.Years ago a fellow started a taxi service with two taxis and called it Bedrock Transit.He had a likeness of Fred Flintstone on the front doors.Less than 6 months later he was contacted from lawyers representing Hanna-Barberi(sp?).He was forced to remove Fred from the cars and had to change to name of the company.He didn't advertise on TV or have a fleet of cars,but still caught the attention of cooperate lawyers.Just saying.

Here is my opinion:

For the most part, 95% of the third reich companies went our of business shortly after 1945. If their mark was not sold to another company or still in business then it is there should be no issue. I believe that many of these marks have probably passed into the public domain by now anyway. This would mean that you have no issue at all.

It may be worth looking into which marks are "unclaimed". As I recall in the US public domain kicks in at 50 or 60 years unless the copyright is renewed. I bet only a hand-full of marks are actually still protected/registered.

You could run into copyright issues if:
1) The comany is still in business (which by the way WKC is).
2) When the company went out of business they may have sold the rights to their logo to another manufacturer (Which I believe Eickhorn did, to Puma?). If this happened, the new owner (Puma) would be able to defend the mark.

Honestly though, companies weigh the "threat" to their company and business (how much harm would this do to their name/brand) against the costs of litigation and legal action.

I think companies will be unlikely to worry about this issue because:

1) The watch fobs (or whatever they are) are not going to cause significant harm to the brand (i.e. we are not making knives and trying to pass them off as WKC and thus harming their business), although this theoretically could be argued.

2) The cost of legal action against this guy would seriously outweigh any:
a) "Harm" that he may be doing (which would have to be proved in court).
b) legal settlement amount needed to recoup the costs of litigation (which is based on the amount of "harm" which was done).

Also, these are European companies, which are (obviously) located in Europe. This is noteworthy because the European courts have a higher standard for these cases than do the US courts. This just means that you have to demonstrate a higher level of "harm" being done to your brand in order for the court to even hear the case/award damages.

Also, Disney, Hanna Barbara, the Entertainment industry as a whole, do defend their copyrights very aggressively.
This is mainly because these images are all they have.
100% of their business is those images. Thus people using them, even in seemingly harmless ways (such as the Taxi example), generate MUCH more of a response from companies in these industries and can be claimed (in court) to be more "damaging".
This is not so much the case in other industries, as their mark is a logo, but not 100% of their business model/method of making money.

I would note however that I am not a lawyer, so this is just my opinion, but I have worked for years in copyright and intellectual property protection for a former employer, this included a few cases of litigation. In all cases, to justify the legal process and costs all of these cases, the damage amounts were in the several-hundred-thousand dollar category of material directly stolen from the company (i.e. directly impacting the bottom line).

He may (at most) get a cranky "cease and desist" letter, but that will be all.

My advice: Stick to the cottage makers.

Wasn´t someone making enamel pins of Makers Marks and selling them years ago?
I have also seen T-shirts with maker logos on them, I am pretty sure these did not come from Solingen either...

I think Johnny is 100 per cent on the mark. They have made lots of different things with the markers marks for years.

funny most of these makers do not even acknowledge participation in the markets of the third reich so should be no problems :}

Thanks for all of the Info, I appreciate it
Newton

I believe Kolping is now the owner of Eickhorn,but I might be mistaken.
As to the fobs/keyrings,I think it's a nice idea,just don't get in trouble with them.
Two of my favorites would be the back to back tree rodents of the earliest Eickhorns and the Kober mark.Kolping would be a third runner-up!

Me too.
Here's the logo.

THAT´S the one!!!
Thanks Serge!

Johnny

Hi Newton, how much if I supply you will the silver? I would like one of these and have a fair bit of loose silver It would be great to turn in in to something nice! Could you do a Blood order eagle?

To all who have replied Thank You for your input. I will post when I have the Paul Seilheimer logo ready, dont hold your breath, just start savin your pennies. Jon I'm sure we can work something out, do you have any artwork of the BO Eagle?
Newton

Copyright holders can be tough if they want to be. I know from experience in the construction machinery industry. Some things to consider;

- The trademark of a company that has ceased production or gone bankrupt is not necessarily available. Someone probably still owns it, especially if one company bought out another.

- Superseded trademarks are often protected just as strongly as the current version. If for no other reason, companies use them for nostalgia products/novelties that remind current owners of past glory.

- Slight alterations in the design or name are no protection. If it makes someone think of the original logo, it is the same as using the original version.

As noted, it depends on who owns the copyright and whether they want to defend it. It often hinges on whether there is money to to gained.

Well, anyway…
Newton, I think this is a cool idea.
Just let me know if anyone has scared you away from this idea, as I´ll commission a jeweler to make my own.
Great idea!


Johnny

Rich,

I think I read years back that Eickhorn went belly up in the 1970's & that the logo was purchased by E&F Horster. What happened to it after that, if anything, I'm unsure.

Duplicate

Did a Google search and it seems Eickhorn,and all it's trademarks are now owned by a British company.Kolping bought WKC in the mid-50's.
From the Pacific Bladeware web site(I believe an Australian company)"The liquidator,H Liesegang Wuppertal sold the Eickhorn assests,trademarks,name,patents and intellectual property rights,stock and work in progress to the UK group,LBA Systems Limited."

And from Wikipedia," WKC, formerly Weyersberg, Kirschbaum, and Cie. was founded in 1883 with the merger of two family-owned sword manufacturing and marketing companies in Solingen, Germany - Weyersberg and Kirschbaum. The newly founded company used traditional techniques for sword making and each of their then employees specialised in one task in the sword making process. This was in accordance to the Division of Labor act devised by the Sword makers Guild of Soligen.

Prior to the merger Fritz Weyersberg had purchased the patent for a blade roll forge invented in England. This machine allowed the sword manufacturing plant to significantly increase blade production. By 1900 WKC's production was such that it employed around 1,200 workers and was the largest company in Solingen. At this time the company not only produced swords but weapons, motorcycles and bike parts as well.

In the year 1922, WKC was bought by the company "Siegen Solinger Gussstahlverein" who was a previous supplier of theirs. The company continued to flourish until the Great Depression. During this time like most companies in Germany, WKC suffered greatly and worsened as during World War II, the company was a target of Allied bombardment. These bombings resulted in almost all of the buildings and equipment owned by the company at the time being destroyed and so all operations there ceased.

In 1955 the company again changed hands with Hans Kolping, a Solingen knife producer, buying the company. He restarted the company and produced swords, knives and pistols. Soon after he discontinued the production of pistols and concentrated on ceremonial sword production and so the company established its own blade etching plant. The company's first orders at this time came from the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps.

On 1989 Hans Kolping died and left the company to his life partner, Margard Willms. Soon after the company changed ownership and Joachim Willms undertook large investments in the buildings and the equipment so as to further grow the company. In 1995 when André Willms, the current owner, joined the company.

In November 2005 the Wilkinson Sword factory of London closed its doors. In order to facilitate production of British ceremonial swords Wilkinson held a sealed bid for its assets. WKC participated and acquired the majority of Wilkinson’s tools, spare parts and their roll forge. These items were transported back to Germany and implemented in WKC's production process. This allowed the company to produce a greater number of sword types and to supply more countries.

WKC: Won the contract to produce the Model 2011 Swords for West Point Cadets at the United States Military Academy."