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Joined: Aug 2001
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OP
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33 |
Hi guys I have picked up some fantastic deals on our classified in the past few months...I know that the economy is hurting in the US at the moment. Wasn't at this past Max (first one missed in 18 years) but I was at the Max and SOS last year and the deals were tremendous...reminded me of early 1980's prices....I have noticed some common items on the classified at prices well above market, retail or even dealer prices. Some sellers have lamented lowering their pricing....now everyone has the right to hope for a profit, to break even or to ask what they want but has anyone else noticed some really outlandish pricing expectations or is it just me? Do you think it is a matter of people that paid high and are attempting to re coup what they can or is it greed? just thought that I would generate some debate..GDC appears to still be sufferring from Post Xmas slow down...cheers, Ryan
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Ryan:
I think that most of the 'outlandish' prioing would be due to people trying to recoup the high prices that they paid for their items in the recent past.
Although, when looking at the big time dealer sites, it doesn't look like too many of tehm have caught onto the price declines that we have all seen in the past year or so.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33
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OP
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,976 Likes: 33 |
Hi John, I tend to agree with you, however if one is attempting to re coup prices paid than the classified on GDC may not be the best place to do so during a bad economic period. I have sold on the classifieds and it was always a matter of realizing a quick turn around as opposed to obtaining maximum pricing. For instance I will be listing some items this week well below market or dealer pricing. I might even be able to realize better prices by listing on Ebay. I am trying GDC first for a myriad of reasons but first and foremost is the quick response that fair pricing of mechandise garners...cheers
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Joined: Sep 2001
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In a declining market, it can hard to establish "fair price". A few years ago at the peak of it I was buying nice but common daggers at $600 and selling for $800. Now they are sitting at $600, so do I try for $500 and lose money? No, I'll just hold them, they are still nice daggers and they don't eat anything.
It can be even harder to track the global market, with the rise and fall of foreign currency, and ebbs and floes of buyer fads, so many times when listing here its easier just to start a bit higher, and then go down if needed, in "Dutch auction" style. That's one reason I do like ebay, it is a "what the market will bear" situation.
Actually in the last few months our sales have actually increased over what we did last year. I think being an election year here in the US, the economy will perk up a bit.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Ryan, Just about everything you see on any dealer site(bar none) is over-priced. Not only over-priced but by a very significant margin. These prices even seem to have gone up since the economic downturn! I collect heer daggers mostly but no way am I going to pay anything like $13 - $1500 for a heer dagger, even if it is early & no matter how much I want it! Collector to collector trading used to be a great way to transact but again most of the people selling are being completely unrealistic with the value that they place on their items even though most of what is offered is so poor that i wouldn`t entertain it at any price. I don`t think many collectors on GDC are as insane as the ones on WAF for the prices they ask but the market is very much in decline and that is just not reflected in the prices. As collector to collector marketing is concerned the continental europeans are by far the most deluded in what their stuff is offered at and for the most part I see a lot of junk. Anything that might be considered worthy of a place in my collection is 50% over - priced IMO. If you want a really good wheeze then take a look at Regimentals.co.uk. The English dealers are even more outrageously demented than the U.S./Canadian guy`s. They are putting in the final nail of the coffin if you ask me. Certainly the odd piece is sold but much is on lay-away and there have always been individuals with more money than sense. I am not one of them and would no longer consider myself a collector so much as a viewer these day`s. The hobby of collecting TR stuff is dying. Even if the prices were significantly adjusted the new (and for the most part useless) generation we have raised are more interested in hip-hop, celebrity nonsense & paying for designer crap made in China than history; regardless of whose history or how important & interesting it may be to us. Several years ago I was saying that the increasing prices were not sustainable and folks were nay saying it then. Well people can believe what they want but the stark reality is there for all to see. Anyone want a Teno leader? Go ahead and stump up 7k for it then go put yourself in a corner with the dunce cap on. Be my guest! I want one too but not that badly  Let me see.....has my salary doubled since 2004? that would be NO! Has my property doubled in value since 2004? er....That would be a resounding NO! Hey! It went down! I rest my case. Landser (an ex collector)
Last edited by Landser; 01/17/2012 09:39 PM.
War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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Joined: Apr 2002
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The price defiantly aren't sustainable and whenever the propping up of the Euro by the Central Banks fails Europeans of all Nations will have trouble getting a getting anything comparable to what they had payed originally or what they "want". Just as the dollar took a huge hit and still is. The Euro is basically being propped up by imaginary money and the labor of nations such as Germany.. The imaginary money isn't there obviously and the Germans and the few other industrious European nations can't be to happy about working for other countries while they have to bust their butts to survive. I think this will cause a major correction in Third Reich Militaria in Europe and the US.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Joined: Jan 2012
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There are two types of collectors. One that collects because they enjoy it and would never sell their collection, and then there are dealers. Dealers might enjoy what they collect,buy,sell,etc....but they are in it to make a living. I think we would all love to find a treasure dagger at a garage sale, or estate sale. If you saw someone selling a $5000 dagger for $100, (remind you at a garage sale, most of the time people need money that have them), would YOU point out that the dagger was worth much more, and they should re-think selling it? Or buy it and brag about your "find"? Tough decision. A question only each of us could answer at that time. And no, offering $200 would not make it better.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Ryan, Just about everything you see on any dealer site(bar none) is over-priced. Not only over-priced but by a very significant margin. These prices even seem to have gone up since the economic downturn! I collect heer daggers mostly but no way am I going to pay anything like $13 - $1500 for a heer dagger, even if it is early & no matter how much I want it! Collector to collector trading used to be a great way to transact but again most of the people selling are being completely unrealistic with the value that they place on their items even though most of what is offered is so poor that i wouldn`t entertain it at any price. I don`t think many collectors on GDC are as insane as the ones on WAF for the prices they ask but the market is very much in decline and that is just not reflected in the prices. As collector to collector marketing is concerned the continental europeans are by far the most deluded in what their stuff is offered at and for the most part I see a lot of junk. Anything that might be considered worthy of a place in my collection is 50% over - priced IMO. If you want a really good wheeze then take a look at Regimentals.co.uk. The English dealers are even more outrageously demented than the U.S./Canadian guy`s. They are putting in the final nail of the coffin if you ask me. Certainly the odd piece is sold but much is on lay-away and there have always been individuals with more money than sense. I am not one of them and would no longer consider myself a collector so much as a viewer these day`s. The hobby of collecting TR stuff is dying. Even if the prices were significantly adjusted the new (and for the most part useless) generation we have raised are more interested in hip-hop, celebrity nonsense & paying for designer crap made in China than history; regardless of whose history or how important & interesting it may be to us. Several years ago I was saying that the increasing prices were not sustainable and folks were nay saying it then. Well people can believe what they want but the stark reality is there for all to see. Anyone want a Teno leader? Go ahead and stump up 7k for it then go put yourself in a corner with the dunce cap on. Be my guest! I want one too but not that badly Let me see.....has my salary doubled since 2004? that would be NO! Has my property doubled in value since 2004? er....That would be a resounding NO! Hey! It went down! I rest my case. Landser (an ex collector) Well stated post Landser that I completely agree with. When I was a kid, we were all kind of 'collectors' of sorts. If it was marbles, comics, baseball cards, coins in your pocket that you would but in the blue coin books, stamps and etc. There was a stamp and coin store in every neighborhood, along with a hobby shop and occassionally a Gun shop. Boys played outside during the day...you couldn't get them to stay indoors. NOW...the hobby and coin shops are long gone and parents can't get their little monsters away from the computer. The kids don't care about antiques or history for that matter. But if it's a new cell phone or flat screen T.V that will be junk in two years...well that's worth standing in a long line for. Look at the shows and see how many young people under 40 you see there. Most collectors today are more mini dealers than collectors. Ever ebayer is a mini dealer. everything is a 'flip' if the 'Price is Right'. Very few Buy and Hold. Same in the stock market; very few long term investors compared to years ago. Everyone seems to be a 'trader' now. Maybe they will be right in the end, who knows? Somethings in the air and it's not 'Hope n' Change'. -Serge-
Last edited by Serge (aka Wagner); 01/21/2012 03:19 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Had to use the Teno leader as an example...darn. Still love mine, probably because my Grandfather left it to me. Trust me though, he left other daggers, and I have been thinking of selling that Teno.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Serge I think you really got something when you say that a lot of people so called collecing are more like traders trying to flip stuff for a quick buck.
Yeah, I was one of those kids. Went to school with the pockets of my short leg pants bulging with all kinds of stuff that boy`s were in to in those happy day`s. Turn me up side down and you might get anything fall out.
As far as my militaria is concerned I only sold anything that I had to to get something else i wanted more at the time when I had no funds. It was always a really tough decision & I can honestly say I have regretted every sale in retrospect. I do treasure what I have but it has nothing to do with do with value but everything to do with appreciation. I do not contemplate selling my few bits and bobs but there are far more important things in life. I am passionate about my collection though modest by many but I am no longer passionate about adding to it.
If getting ripped off and knowing you have been ripped off is what you have to accept to get the next piece then you are not a collector you are a junkie and need counselling for your addiction.
DJDR as far as the Teno leader is concerned I just pulled that from the air as an example. Actually 7K would be a below average price. As a brief excercise I searched and found 8 in as many minutes on the net ranging from just under &K to 12K although the 12K piece was repleat with hangers (whoopie ding). FYI our good friend and collector colleague Paul Hogle (lakesidetrader) as ever is by far the most reasonable. If you read this Paul none of the jabs are in your direction and for the record I have never had anything but good trades with you both ways. It must be difficult trying to run a business trying to be fair to clients and compete in the present market conditions.
Best regards
Landser
Last edited by Landser; 01/21/2012 09:07 PM.
War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,814 Likes: 18 |
I am a collector (and an investor) who likes to own and hold.
There are times when I decide to get out of something and then I am looking for trying to get the most back, usually at least what I paid for it.
I often pay premium prices for premium conditioned items. And, I deal with many people but most often with guys, like Paul at Lakeside, whose integrity is absolute. But, in order to find the items that I want, I will and have dealt with all sorts.
I have been burned many times, but overall, I have a high regard for most of the people involved in this hobby of ours. Like the smelly family member, we all learn to stay away from certain people unless we absolutely have to.
And, I have been pretty fortunate in that selling many of my items, especially the rare and the well conditioned ones, did not cost me any real money (except for the ridiculous swings in exchange rates that are a killer for international transactions).
I attribute my luck and relatively minor financial losses (except for the outright fakes and frauds) to a strategy that starts by buying the best, holding it and dealing with high integrity people.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 94
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Joined: Jan 2012
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Landser and John, I completely agree. No big deal about the Teno, Landser. I have collected many things in my life, baseball cards, stamps-covers, and other items. Though I love the daggers..especially the history part of them, this hobby sounds and acts the same as others. I would love to own some of the great daggers I see on this forum, but when they are $8000 and up??!! Wow!! Not saying they are not worth it, but for even the modest collector - forever out of range. I want to go to some shows this year and check things out. Though it will be more of a "museum walk" rather than a buying one. Still think it will be great though to see and meet the big collectors. Serge, another reason there might be no young people in the hobby, well, same as there is no young people into Van Gogh collecting. Once out of range in the dollars, limits the collectors. Usually, it is only the older generation that still has money that can spend on such a hobby. I love it, and have enjoyed browsing and learning from all of your posts. Thank You
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