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Joined: May 2000
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Craig, There has been less than a handful of the 33 rings ever found, and all in very worn condition. You've stated that even the normally seen 30's style skull was different than what was found on the introductory 33 rings. How can you be so sure of fact when we really don't have a good enough example to even compare it to ?

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Exactly my point! Because I don't have the ring in hand I don't have a clue either, it was more a curiosity, an interest, a clarification concerning a small portion of this nicely done engraving that "seems" from the picture unfinished and stop at the large verticle scratch. An engraver mistake, maybe, maybe not. The obvious is sometimes not so obvious. Thanks anyway!

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No problem Mikee. JR: My basis for the statement were the photos of the Wolfe ring (photos available in my book, submitted to me by Don Boyle). And having thought about it, you actually have a very good point. While I noticed differences at the time, a sample of one worn ring is not sufficient evidence upon which to base a reliable theory. Until we discover a 1933 ring in better condition, I should not make such a blanket statement that "1933 rings had a different skull." I should revise what I say to reflect this dynamic. At the TIME I restored the Schwarz ring, I used the photos of the Wolfe ring upon which to base my skull design. Although the design of the 1933 ring itself is ever-so-slightly different, the skulls could be identical.

Last edited by Craig Gottlieb; 01/18/2012 03:43 PM.

Craig Gottlieb
Founder, German Daggers Dot Com
www.cgmauctions.com
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Also, of interest ... bidding is almost at $9K on the Schwarz ring. It'll be VERY interesting to see where this ends up. I have my own opinions, but am really anxious to see whether or not I valued it at more than it's actually worth, or if I'm way under. This is what is exciting about the auction ... it really is revealing a lot of interesting information about what things are REALLY worth in the market.


Craig Gottlieb
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I guess the ring market is alive and well and isn't as depressed as some say it is!

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G
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G
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- standard rings sit. Ask all who are holding on to a few and trying to sell them frown..
Craigs,,has 2 BIG things going for it even though its 'restored',
1 is the date,,2 is the recipient...Rings like that will always sell...
IF times weren't so bad he would have gotten a whole lot more for it too!

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Hey G,

I understand and agree with your two points...All I'm saying is that if ring holders are ready to sell now or in the future "I" think it's better to sell at auction rather than a direct buy from a dealer, but to each his own I also understand. From this auction and Ryan's story is what I've learned from and will not forget. Because of this, there are certain dealers that "I" now do not trust nor will I ever do business with.




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As Gaspare said, the ring market is depressed from its highs. The two things he mentions certainly were what separated it out from the "pack" of rings. He's right ... only extraordinary rings sell for top dollar anymore.

Last edited by Craig Gottlieb; 01/29/2012 12:20 AM.

Craig Gottlieb
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Geez! reread what I stated please,I said I agree. But since you have sold over what, fifty? Probably the biggest seller of these type rings, again I don't know. Show a graph demonstrating this price decline. I'm sure you have the records,right. It's not my bread and butter, but since it is yours it would be interesting to see how much of a decline these rings have fallen. Thank you.

Joined: Jul 2010
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A
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A
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Book Release -----
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Kerplunk,splash

Last edited by ajax; 01/29/2012 03:13 AM.
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G
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ajax,,shit happens wink

Mikee,,what really started happening was run of the mill late types in very good condition started to go for double digit numbers.
40s Rings ,where you can't find the guy, common date, but in very good + condition just aren't worth $10k + to me,,and most others too.
So some sold,,but when they tried to resell they couldn't make their money back! That was just the start of the problems.
Their was a time when it was thought there could be just 20 or so HRs out there!! With the times and vets passing away more and more HRs started to appear,,they aren't really so rare any more unless you have a special one.


Last edited by Gaspare; 01/29/2012 06:08 PM.
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hello to all,
it has been quite a while that i have been on here. that being said i am the previous owner of the schwarz 33 ring. i will try to cover all the questions in the thread the best i can. first,the ring was aquired near regansburg sometime after the war by an army docter named davies. he was the doctor that my mother had worked for as his RN. he had noticed the skul;l was loose and asked a jeweler friend to repair the skull. the jeweler decided to be a good friend and replace it with a bezel and diamond setting. the diamond is a vvs quailty an g-h color abot 33 points. so a very nice stone which is now in a ring my wife wears. when the jeweler gave the ring back to doc davies. he was furious and gave it to my mother and said here its ruined "i dont want it". it sat in a drawer for 35 years or so misplaced. she came across it one day and gave it to me. i knew it was an honor ring but wasnt sure about the inscription because it was different than all others on the web. i contaacted don boyle about it and he was extremely interested in seeing it. so when the max came to town i met don and we went out to eat,he came to my home and he got a hands on look at it as well as a few other members. i assure you the ring i sold craig was 100% good. the internal scratches looked like it was worn on a chain around the neck or something? as for the whole sale to craig that is a sore subject! i sold the ring to craig for around 2500.00 due to financial issues. i was led to beleive it wasnt worth much more than that. didnt matter i needed the money. but the real issue is this. part of the sale agreement was my story of the ring and recgnition as the previous owner was to be in the book and a signed copy was to be mailed to me on completion of publishing. well,none of that ever happend! when i called craig about the book after it was finaly out he told me that he didnt order any extra copies and didnt have one for me! so with that all being said, i hope the new owner enjoys the ring as i did,and i do have the original photos before and after the diamond was removed. i could dig them out for the current owner to have a copy of. i will not release permission for use in any publications without writtn permission though. not trying to start a fight but the air and truth needs to be cleared.

signed
m.vaughn shock
best wishes

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T
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I believe a trend exist or is developing with Craig when it comes down to accurately evaluating and giving the potential seller a fair evaluation of value. The same or similar happened to Sellick Rogers (needing to sell the rings quickly).
I realize he is in busines, but deception when it comes down to buying is outright wrong. I believe a person should offer a fair amount and abide by the terms of an agreement.
Craig,some friendly advice, you may be making money now, but all this controversy will sooner or later catch up. Bad publicy travels fast in the hobby. Ron

Last edited by Tanker; 11/14/2012 02:02 AM.
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"If" that was the agreement, then it was broken. Is this persons integrity in question?
Open ended question, you decide!

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it is also a funny coincidence that when i asked him for copies of his wolfe ring pics so i could restore the ring myself he couldnt find them or just plain ignored me. but after he bought the ring he didnt waste time restoring it using the same pics! life is one big learning experience. and i sure learned alot after dealing with him.

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Originally Posted By: Mikee
"If" that was the agreement, then it was broken. Is this persons integrety in question?


Which person's integrity are you refering to. If you are refering to Craig, then the answer is yes. Ron

Last edited by Tanker; 11/14/2012 02:32 AM.
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What did the restored ring eventually sell for at auction ??
Regards
Fraser

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over 12000.00 us

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S
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an old guy was climbing up a mountain and it was very cold outside, he came across a snake,the snake asked him...please take me down from this mountain I'm so cold I'm freezing to death...the old guy said...if I do you when you get warm you will bite me,the snake replied...I promise I won't...so down the mountain they went.
Once the snake got warm,he bit the old guy...hey you said you would not bite me...the snake looked at the guy and said "you knew I was a snake"

dealing with this guy...you know you are going to get bit

Sepp

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I recently took a peek at some dealer sites that sell SS rings, to see if in fact SS Honor ring prices have taken a drastic nose dive like reported. I would be elated if it were true. If in fact prices have hit rock bottom, then why isn't it reflected as such on these sites? I can't fault anyone for selling at their asking price, but please don't complain that you can't sell when your prices stay the same and then blame it on the market. It's all a ploy to purchase low in my opinion. All I can say is don't read their lips read their web sites and you'll know the truth.

Purchased for $2,500.00, sold for over $12,000.00! Case closed.


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Its very reassuring to see that people can post the truth here without posts being deleted and posters warned over daring to post facts that affect the collecting community
Fraser

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Wow another story involving Craig and SS rings....I will NEVER deal with him again...I have defended him to others but that is now over. The last four things I purchased from his site were garbage..(prior purchases were all good).a museum quality Luft officers visor that turned out to be a restored DLV, a summer Luft mesh flying helmet, described as mint which was abysmal when it arrived..Craig's explanation..? "sent out wrong one" I photo matched it it was the same helmet!!!...damage was not described or shown...Luft Flieger blouse...dismal condition poorly restored insignia....finally two years ago pre paid and went to SOS to pick up near mint Eichkorn Heer dagger....my jaw dropped when I picked it up...bent scabbard, far from mint piece in many ways..explanation "must have been damaged in transit" it was scary...immediate money back...these are the facts..in all cases money refunded but none of the "deficiencies" were described or made known. I am not a fussy collector. The issues were blatant and obvious yet were never descibed or photographed example: mesh helmet had throat mic cut off, two tears in mesh, poorly sewn, numerous snags and missing one interior plastic ear cover yet photographed and described as mint...fliegerbluse had replaced shoulder boards, handsewn replaced adler, replaced collar tabsn all replaced, non matching buttons and non described damaged...is there a pattern here...?

Joined: Mar 2007
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I think its safe to say that CG is the used car salesman of TR. He has very little interest outside of the mighty $$.
I wouldn't put him at the low level of a Snyder, who is more like the garbageman of TR ,,, But he has proven again and again that he has very little in the way of scruples.


Doug
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I believe it is safe to say he is on the fast track to Charlie Synder's reputation.I personally don't see how he can continue this and not be called out more.
Oh, I forgot, he is the expert for all items on Pawn Stars!!

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well i think we all know what that involvement is about. pawn stars refuse to buy and sell ww2 nazi items. "rick said in an episode that he didnt want the stuff in his store it creeps him out. so its awful funny craig is now involved. my guess is to scoop up all the stuff that walks in that they wont deal with. i can only assume how much of a fair price he is giving people in vegas where people are already comprimised for obvious reasons if they are hitting up the pawn shop. something like this possibly???? "no mam that presentation case knights cross with issue document is only worth around 500.00... they are pretty common" but i want to help you out so i will give you 600.00....

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Rick from Pawn Stars would sell his grannies knickers to turn a buck - He only shies away from TR on TV because he knows he would get complaints from the usual suspects if he dealt in any Nazi merchandise, and could possibly compromise his show ,, Which, I presume, he makes far more from than actual pawn sales.
I would bet 50 to 1 that he'd have no problem turning a TR deal off camera - "That stuff creeps me out", my arse !


Doug
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Originally Posted By: Tanker
I believe it is safe to say he is on the fast track to Charlie Synder's reputation.I personally don't see how he can continue this and not be called out more.
Oh, I forgot, he is the expert for all items on Pawn Stars!!


He has already surpassed Snyder, these instances regarding the honour ring sales, purchases are
Only the tip of a massive iceberg
Fraser

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I rarely post on this forum, but anyone who has dealings with this man is going to be ripped off one way or another.


Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum.
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R
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Unfortunately, this is only the tip of the iceberg. I tend to be suspecious of ALL TR dealers as I've found the majoity of them at least have some sort of "larceny in their heart"...I'm not too active in the hobby anymore and this is just one reason why I'm not!

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T
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Actually not ALL 3rd Reich dealers are dishonest or bad. Unfortunately, it only takes one or two bad apples in the hobby to taint it. I really never understood these folks who lie, cheat or alter pieces as in the end it will only hurt the hobby and do themselves harm.
Ron

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