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all opinions and comments welcomed,,,thanks,<Robert
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more pics,,,thanks to all-Robert
Last edited by militarymania; 12/23/2011 03:12 PM.
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Hello Robert, are these your pics? It looks like two different fez's from 1st set of pics and 2nd set. On the 2nd pics the stitching on the sweatband is different and there is an "X" stitch holding the ends together. Just my observation, Leipzig
Never fry bacon in the nude!
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hi,,sorry,,,i must have mixed up the first one!,,DUH,,,
Last edited by militarymania; 12/23/2011 03:13 PM.
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The basic configuration of the fez looks pretty good. Does it have several loops of thread on the back so the tassel can be secured? Don't know about the eagle, but the skull does not look right to me.
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hi Grumpy,,,here are a couple more pics,,,thanks,,Robert
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does anyone have any more comments on this item?...Robert
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been collecting for tons of years , & I still don't think I've seen an original one yet. every one I saw , had some one saying "no good". don't know how they can be experts,if every one at every show is bad. sorry I can't help. from what little I know , it does look correct. jeff p.s. if this turns out original, I'm stealing your photos for myself.
Last edited by jeff; 12/25/2011 08:39 AM.
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hi Jeff,,,help yourself to the photos,just in case,,,wish i could get a definitive answer from one or more collectors,,,LOL,,,,Robert
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I don't have one of my own to compare to, but that being said, I think the fez may be original but I don't like the insignia.
What happened with these is sort of an anomaly in the collecting world, the value of the bevo insignia set off of them became more valuable than complete on the fez. So I have seen many of them that had been stripped insignia, and then sold as well as "restorable"
I suspect the people who bought these stripped fezzes then realized that the insignia sets were quite hard to come by, and so restored them using less than original insignia.
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if the insignia is no good,and to mention that I have seen fez's with black sweatbands and white ink stamped with the size,,would this one with a tan sweatband be considered a repro??,,if fez is original,then what would be the value of the fez by itself?...Thanks,,Robert
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Robert, I don't know for certaiin the insignia are bad. They just look odd. On the positive side, I can't say I have seen known reproductions like these. Considerring where these fezes were worn, it could be the insignia were made locally or in some occupied country. I have searched references I have and cannot find this type of skull anywhere. Again, that doesn't mean it's "bad." As to the sweatband, I believe the one I have has one like yours. I'm away from home, but will check when I get home. I do know the insignia on my fez are authentic and are are of known types. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody would say the fez is a fake. Mine is constructed essentially the same as yours. I'll have to compare the cords on the tassels, though. I wouldn't write yours off yet as being a partial repro. It could be as right as they come. Unfortunately, these fezes are an easy target for the naysayers. Much is unknown about them, so I would sit tight for the time being until more information is gathered
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thanks very much grumpy,,,I await your next reply...Robert
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Made it home. The sweatband is tan and just under 2 inches in width. It is sewn directly to the fez without being folded over, that is, the band was laid against the inside of the crown and sewn to it with maroon zigzag stitching. There are no markings on the fez anywhere, including the band, inside and out. Mine appears a bit darker than yours, Robert, but, that could be due to fading or the camera light. As well as I can tell, the tassels are identical. The only difference I can make out in that regard is there are a few black threads from the tassel poked through on the inside where the "pigtail" is attached. It appears, other than the sweatbands and the insignia, our to fezzes are pretty much identical. This could get into the area of more than one maker and the time frames in which these fezzes were made. Practically every repro fez I have seen has been a converted Shriners example, or one commonly worn in the Middle East. Some even have a woven straw interior. They also have well-known fake insignia. Until something more definitive shows up, I suppose yours is a toss-up at this point. In my view, the main point of concern would be the insignia, but that may have to stay in the eye of the beholder.
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thanks very much Grumpy,,,,Robert
Last edited by militarymania; 12/26/2011 12:59 AM.
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Hello Robert, I own such a fez that I bought a good 8-9 years ago when you could buy them for $400 bucks. I posted it for discussion when I joined the forum in 2004. It was unanimously declared "right as rain". Unfortunately, those posts from that era have since disappeared. I took some new pics for you for comparison and will post them here. I will NOT try to authenticate the insignia as I am far from an expert, I will only say they are different from mine and zig-zag sewn. Grumpy makes an excellent point about "locally-produced" products being used. Mr Jerry's point about these fez's being stripped of insignia years ago, then "restored" with repro insignia, is well-taken. I have heard that before. Perhaps someone with more experience with these eagles and skulls will chime in here. I will say the fez itself, sweatband, tassel and tassel attachment loops look fine. [TO ME] I'm not sure about the way the sweatband is sewn to the fez, i.e. sewn, then folded over. From what I have read, sweatbands have been observed in tan, grey, and black. Mine is black and is "chain-stitched" to the fez, maker-marked and size marked. Also, the insignia on mine is "straight-stitched" You might want to contact forum member Bill Rannow @www.collectorsmilitaria.com [he has a banner ad here on GDC] he has a couple red fez's on his site right now and has sold at least one grey/green example. Pics to follow. Hope this Helps, Leipzig
Last edited by Roger Jeandell aka; 12/26/2011 05:13 PM.
Never fry bacon in the nude!
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Excellent points! The insignia on mine are also "straight-stitched." These were simple in their construction. Nothing fancy about them. I, too, have seen several with the insignia stripped. Shame, really, but it happens.
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more pics,,sweatband is sewn,then folded over,insignia appears to be "straight stitched" on the inside,,,doe this help in determining the authenticity of this item?,,,Robert
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any other comments/opinions on the latest pics posted?...Robert
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Robert, I just don't know. If I were looking to buy this as an original and authentic fez, I would pass on it, just to be safe. The more I look at the sweatband, the more it looks like it's a replacement and is similar to those seen on some higher quality repro visor caps, as to the type and color. Again, the insignia are questionable and I think you would have a hard time selling the fez because of them. The body of the fez and tassel look good to me. Being cautious and perhaps a bit pessimistic, I think it's likely an authentic TR Handschar fez, with replaced insignia and sweatband. If you can buy it for an extremely reasonable price, you would have a decent display piece without being in over your head. As far as any further restoration, known authentic insignia are extremely hard to find and, unless you get lucky, are very pricey. I wish I could be more encouraging and opinions can vary, but I would pass on this or, if desired, buy it for what it appears to be at an appropriate price.
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the seller is wanting $800.00...is that a fair price considering all the questionables it has??...Robert
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I don't think so, Robert. It's not the kind of thing that would interest me, but I wouldn't pay more than around $100 for it, all things considered. You have to remember what it is, or may be, and the time might come where you would wish to sell it. I would be surprised if you could find a buyer that would pay $200 for it. I would wait until I found one that is not so questionable. $800 would go a long way toward buying one you are more comfortable with.
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thanks for your helpful insight Grumpy,,,I will wait for a better,less complicated one..>Robert
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I don't have one of my own to compare to, but that being said, I think the fez may be original but I don't like the insignia.
What happened with these is sort of an anomaly in the collecting world, the value of the bevo insignia set off of them became more valuable than complete on the fez. So I have seen many of them that had been stripped insignia, and then sold as well as "restorable"
I suspect the people who bought these stripped fezzes then realized that the insignia sets were quite hard to come by, and so restored them using less than original insignia. Both insignia are indeed reproductions IMO , an exact match can be found in this link - Nrs. 51 + 52 >> Fake Insignia Thread
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thank you Winkelman,,,there they are!...Robert
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don't like the insignia at all, probably stripped and restored with post war insignia
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insignia on my FEZ an original one
ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
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thank you Alexsandr for posting these pics...Robert
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Please note authentic insignia can vary in style. Alexandr's are good, but there are other authentic styles. Unfortunately, there is also a variety of fakes.
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hi the body of the fez appears original...the sweatband appears to have been replaced...notice the poor stitching job through the body of the cap when compared with the authentic example posted....the insignia appear to be reproductions....these are available usually between $1200 to $1500 feldgrau examples are $2200 to $2500 they have increased only as the value of their insignia has increased as previously indicated, regards, Ryan
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Hi Kevin, good to see your post........one of the 4 or 5 "SS cloth experts" from the "glory days" of GDC...all the best, cheers, Ryan
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Germanmilitaria.com Collectors Guild has a feldgrau and maroon example...check out to compare against real period examples....cheers
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