Translate German to English - Click here to open Altavista's Babel Fish Translator Click here to learn about all those symbols by people's names.

leftlogo.jpg (20709 bytes)

Upgrade to Premium Membership

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
all opinions and comments welcomed,,,thanks,<Robert

SS FEZ 1.jpg (103.39 KB, 222 downloads)
SS FEZ 10.jpg (21.27 KB, 223 downloads)
SS FEZ 11 - Copy.jpg (33.2 KB, 223 downloads)
SS (2).jpg (39.45 KB, 224 downloads)
SS FEZ 5.jpg (44.17 KB, 223 downloads)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
more pics,,,thanks to all-Robert

SS FEZ 3.jpg (39.21 KB, 221 downloads)
Last edited by militarymania; 12/23/2011 03:12 PM.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,032
R
Offline
R
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,032
Hello Robert, are these your pics? It looks like two different fez's from 1st set of pics and 2nd set. On the 2nd pics the stitching on the sweatband is different and there is an "X" stitch holding the ends together. Just my observation, Leipzig


Never fry bacon in the nude!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
hi,,sorry,,,i must have mixed up the first one!,,DUH,,,

Last edited by militarymania; 12/23/2011 03:13 PM.
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
The basic configuration of the fez looks pretty good. Does it have several loops of thread on the back so the tassel can be secured? Don't know about the eagle, but the skull does not look right to me.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
hi Grumpy,,,here are a couple more pics,,,thanks,,Robert

SS FEZ 3 - Copy.jpg (39.21 KB, 202 downloads)
SS FEZ 4 - Copy.jpg (63.12 KB, 203 downloads)
SS FEZ 5.jpg (44.17 KB, 203 downloads)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
does anyone have any more comments on this item?...Robert

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
J
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 546
been collecting for tons of years , & I still don't think I've seen an original one yet.
every one I saw , had some one saying "no good". don't know how they can be experts,if every one at every show is bad.
sorry I can't help.
from what little I know , it does look correct.
jeff
p.s. if this turns out original, I'm stealing your photos for myself.

Last edited by jeff; 12/25/2011 08:39 AM.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
hi Jeff,,,help yourself to the photos,just in case,,,wish i could get a definitive answer from one or more collectors,,,LOL,,,,Robert

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,439
Offline
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,439
I don't have one of my own to compare to, but that being said,
I think the fez may be original but I don't like the insignia.

What happened with these is sort of an anomaly in the collecting world, the value of the bevo insignia set off of them became more valuable than complete on the fez. So I have seen many of them that had been stripped insignia, and then sold as well as "restorable"

I suspect the people who bought these stripped fezzes then realized that the insignia sets were quite hard to come by, and so restored them using less than original insignia.


JERRY
GDC GOLD #0213

www.militarycollectorsHQ.com
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
if the insignia is no good,and to mention that I have seen fez's with black sweatbands and white ink stamped with the size,,would this one with a tan sweatband be considered a repro??,,if fez is original,then what would be the value of the fez by itself?...Thanks,,Robert

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Robert, I don't know for certaiin the insignia are bad. They just look odd. On the positive side, I can't say I have seen known reproductions like these. Considerring where these fezes were worn, it could be the insignia were made locally or in some occupied country. I have searched references I have and cannot find this type of skull anywhere. Again, that doesn't mean it's "bad." As to the sweatband, I believe the one I have has one like yours. I'm away from home, but will check when I get home. I do know the insignia on my fez are authentic and are are of known types. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody would say the fez is a fake. Mine is constructed essentially the same as yours. I'll have to compare the cords on the tassels, though. I wouldn't write yours off yet as being a partial repro. It could be as right as they come. Unfortunately, these fezes are an easy target for the naysayers. Much is unknown about them, so I would sit tight for the time being until more information is gathered

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
thanks very much grumpy,,,I await your next reply...Robert

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Made it home. The sweatband is tan and just under 2 inches in width. It is sewn directly to the fez without being folded over, that is, the band was laid against the inside of the crown and sewn to it with maroon zigzag stitching. There are no markings on the fez anywhere, including the band, inside and out. Mine appears a bit darker than yours, Robert, but, that could be due to fading or the camera light. As well as I can tell, the tassels are identical. The only difference I can make out in that regard is there are a few black threads from the tassel poked through on the inside where the "pigtail" is attached. It appears, other than the sweatbands and the insignia, our to fezzes are pretty much identical. This could get into the area of more than one maker and the time frames in which these fezzes were made. Practically every repro fez I have seen has been a converted Shriners example, or one commonly worn in the Middle East. Some even have a woven straw interior. They also have well-known fake insignia. Until something more definitive shows up, I suppose yours is a toss-up at this point. In my view, the main point of concern would be the insignia, but that may have to stay in the eye of the beholder.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
thanks very much Grumpy,,,,Robert

Last edited by militarymania; 12/26/2011 12:59 AM.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,032
R
Offline
R
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,032
Hello Robert, I own such a fez that I bought a good 8-9 years ago when you could buy them for $400 bucks. I posted it for discussion when I joined the forum in 2004. It was unanimously declared "right as rain". Unfortunately, those posts from that era have since disappeared. I took some new pics for you for comparison and will post them here. I will NOT try to authenticate the insignia as I am far from an expert, I will only say they are different from mine and zig-zag sewn. Grumpy makes an excellent point about "locally-produced" products being used. Mr Jerry's point about these fez's being stripped of insignia years ago, then "restored" with repro insignia, is well-taken. I have heard that before. Perhaps someone with more experience with these eagles and skulls will chime in here. I will say the fez itself, sweatband, tassel and tassel attachment loops look fine. [TO ME] I'm not sure about the way the sweatband is sewn to the fez, i.e. sewn, then folded over. From what I have read, sweatbands have been observed in tan, grey, and black. Mine is black and is "chain-stitched" to the fez, maker-marked and size marked. Also, the insignia on mine is "straight-stitched" You might want to contact forum member Bill Rannow @www.collectorsmilitaria.com [he has a banner ad here on GDC] he has a couple red fez's on his site right now and has sold at least one grey/green example. Pics to follow. Hope this Helps, Leipzig

DSCF2611.jpg (85.43 KB, 162 downloads)
DSCF2613.jpg (83.15 KB, 163 downloads)
DSCF2614.jpg (71.63 KB, 162 downloads)
DSCF2615.jpg (86.47 KB, 159 downloads)
DSCF2616.jpg (82.4 KB, 157 downloads)
Last edited by Roger Jeandell aka; 12/26/2011 05:13 PM.

Never fry bacon in the nude!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Excellent points! The insignia on mine are also "straight-stitched." These were simple in their construction. Nothing fancy about them. I, too, have seen several with the insignia stripped. Shame, really, but it happens.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
more pics,,sweatband is sewn,then folded over,insignia appears to be "straight stitched" on the inside,,,doe this help in determining the authenticity of this item?,,,Robert

fez 12.jpg (40.77 KB, 107 downloads)
fez 123.jpg (63.89 KB, 108 downloads)
fez 1234.jpg (33.77 KB, 107 downloads)
fez 12345.jpg (54.27 KB, 107 downloads)
fez 123456.jpg (61.3 KB, 107 downloads)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
more pics again

fez 1234567.jpg (49.46 KB, 108 downloads)
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
any other comments/opinions on the latest pics posted?...Robert

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Robert, I just don't know. If I were looking to buy this as an original and authentic fez, I would pass on it, just to be safe. The more I look at the sweatband, the more it looks like it's a replacement and is similar to those seen on some higher quality repro visor caps, as to the type and color. Again, the insignia are questionable and I think you would have a hard time selling the fez because of them. The body of the fez and tassel look good to me. Being cautious and perhaps a bit pessimistic, I think it's likely an authentic TR Handschar fez, with replaced insignia and sweatband. If you can buy it for an extremely reasonable price, you would have a decent display piece without being in over your head. As far as any further restoration, known authentic insignia are extremely hard to find and, unless you get lucky, are very pricey. I wish I could be more encouraging and opinions can vary, but I would pass on this or, if desired, buy it for what it appears to be at an appropriate price.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
the seller is wanting $800.00...is that a fair price considering all the questionables it has??...Robert

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
I don't think so, Robert. It's not the kind of thing that would interest me, but I wouldn't pay more than around $100 for it, all things considered. You have to remember what it is, or may be, and the time might come where you would wish to sell it. I would be surprised if you could find a buyer that would pay $200 for it. I would wait until I found one that is not so questionable. $800 would go a long way toward buying one you are more comfortable with.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
thanks for your helpful insight Grumpy,,,I will wait for a better,less complicated one..>Robert

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 961
Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 961
Originally Posted By: Mr. Jerry
I don't have one of my own to compare to, but that being said,
I think the fez may be original but I don't like the insignia.

What happened with these is sort of an anomaly in the collecting world, the value of the bevo insignia set off of them became more valuable than complete on the fez. So I have seen many of them that had been stripped insignia, and then sold as well as "restorable"

I suspect the people who bought these stripped fezzes then realized that the insignia sets were quite hard to come by, and so restored them using less than original insignia.


Both insignia are indeed reproductions IMO , an exact match can be found in this link - Nrs. 51 + 52 >> Fake Insignia Thread

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
thank you Winkelman,,,there they are!...Robert

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 247
D
Offline
D
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 247
don't like the insignia at all, probably stripped and restored with post war insignia

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 636
insignia on my FEZ
an original one

IMG_4513 [800x600].JPG (95.38 KB, 70 downloads)
IMG_4515 [640x480].JPG (94.01 KB, 70 downloads)
IMG_4516 [640x480].JPG (93.21 KB, 70 downloads)

ALWAYS BUYING ITALIAN/ FASCIST MILITARIA > AND SOVIET DAGGERS
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
OP Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,344
thank you Alexsandr for posting these pics...Robert

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Offline
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,077
Please note authentic insignia can vary in style. Alexandr's are good, but there are other authentic styles. Unfortunately, there is also a variety of fakes.

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 29
S
Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 29
hi the body of the fez appears original...the sweatband appears to have been replaced...notice the poor stitching job through the body of the cap when compared with the authentic example posted....the insignia appear to be reproductions....these are available usually between $1200 to $1500 feldgrau examples are $2200 to $2500 they have increased only as the value of their insignia has increased as previously indicated, regards, Ryan

Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 938
Offline
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 938
my oppinion also Ryan

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 29
S
Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 29
Hi Kevin, good to see your post........one of the 4 or 5 "SS cloth experts" from the "glory days" of GDC...all the best, cheers, Ryan

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 29
S
Offline
S
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,958
Likes: 29
Germanmilitaria.com Collectors Guild has a feldgrau and maroon example...check out to compare against real period examples....cheers


Link Copied to Clipboard
Popular Topics(Views)
2,261,489 SS Bayonets
1,760,281 Teno Insignia Set
1,128,758 westwall rings
Latest New Threads
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:13 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Stephen - 03/27/2024 10:06 AM
Hiddensee brooch
by benten - 03/24/2024 04:13 PM
Latest New Posts
Wir fahren gegen Engelland - Battle of Britain
by Gaspare - 03/28/2024 12:34 AM
Paul Weyersberg Heer
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 11:30 PM
Luftwaffe Swords
by Tanker - 03/27/2024 07:29 PM
HJ Fahrtenmesser,
by OWN - 03/27/2024 07:05 PM
Frog question.
by Dutchman - 03/27/2024 03:27 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums42
Topics31,652
Posts328,702
Members7,501
Most Online5,900
Dec 19th, 2019
Who's Online Now
7 members (Herman V. (aka Herr Mann), Jonesy, Documentalist, Jamesol2, Seppi, Vern, Paul), 482 guests, and 75 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5