UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories SS & SA Uniform Forum Waffen SS tunic attributed to Person & unit

This tunic is marked with the name and unit of it's original owner, and it came with a note stating it was purchased from the estate of the German soldier including his full name and rank (more on the smock in first picture later).
-Ray

eagle and writing on tunic look bogus...cant say anything regarding the tunic and smock

Any specific details about eagle that would cause you to question it?
I am not an expert on these things, so I am interested in learning.
I did check the eagle and the stitching with a blacklight and they looked ok from that perspective.

I am not sure how one would conclude that the writing was "bogus", unless the person or unit never existed. It might be possible to say that it was applied after the war (for example ballpoint pens were generally available until after WWII, though i am not sure this was done in ballpoint) Since this is said to have come from the soldiers estate long after the war, anything is possible. I would be interested in how you reached your opinion.

-Ray

The eagle is a replica. You can see a ghost where the original was sewn just above and to the left. Note photo.
The writing has been done with a felt tip pen rather than a nibbed pen of the period.
Could you post some close ups of the collar tabs please?
Steve

Steve,
Thanks for the details on the eagle. I can definately see the difference between this one and the example you posted. I don't really see the ghost from an original, this might be a shadow in that picture. Below is a close-up on the tabs and some better pics of the eagle including the back of the stitching.
I am pretty confident the writing is not a felt tip pen. I spent many years working with autographs and this looks to me like either a fountain pen or ballpoint. I'll try to get better pics, but each line has multiple distinct strokes as would be made when writing on cloth with a pen. I don't see signs of the bleeding or spotting usually found with felt tips on cloth. Still quite possible that the writing was done post war.(pic added still hard to see strokes in pic)
I do appreciate the feedback on these items. I just want to be a certain as possible before deciding to sell something too cheap, or worse yet take something apart that turns out to have been correct.
Thanks,
Ray

The collar tabs are good.
The bird is definitely not original to the tunic.
Honestly that is about all I can tell you friend.
Remember it is just the opinion of 1 man.
Steve

Thanks.
I appreciate the help on this.
-Ray

I am not sold on the tabs either, but the eagle is bad,
and the way it is named is unusual to say the least.
but enough for me to walk away from it.

Any details that cause you to question the tabs?
What do you find unusual about the name?

I appreciate everyone's opinions on this. If something clearly has issues, then details would help educate others. I have seen pretty advanced collectors debate some of these items and it is most informative when they share the reasons for their opinions.

Thanks
Ray

The eagle has no chance, the tabs have little chance or less. Just compare to known originals.
Best Wishes,
Bob

I would pass on this tunic.

It's not the name itself, but its where and how it was named.

The tabs almost look like officer hand embroidered ones but in cotton instead of bullion.
The RZM pattern ones that IMO they are trying to look like, have a bordered sewn edge inside the runes.

Sadly this stuff can't talk and tell us the story. So once you see something wrong you have to question everything and assume the worst.

The SS tab is a late war piece. I have a panzer wrap bought from a vet in the 70's with the same type tab. I am certain the rank tab is good also.
I understand , conflicting opinions. It is up to you buddy.
I think some one has taken a good tunic and tried to spice it up with a phoney bird and writing a name in it. It very well could be the vet that owned it signed by someone else.
Steve

For some context and background on this tunic. This came to me as part of a large collection when a friend of my father passed away. The previous owner had a lot of nice high end items, most of which have turned out to be correct. The cloth items are the only things that seem to be generating debate. The guns, daggers, and medals seemed to have fairly well documented sources of information about what to look for and how to determine correctness. The cloth items have been more of a challenge. As an example, several have felt that the eagle on this tunic is a reproduction. Attempting to confirm this, I started comparing it to examples in the three volume edition "Uniforms of the Waffen-SS" by Michael D. Beaver. I was surprised by the number of variations that exist of the eagle. I noted at least a dozen very different eagles in these volumes. Many are like the example posted earlier in this thread and look nothing like the eagle on this tunic. Others pretty close to the example on this tunic. If it doesn't already exist I think a reference showing all known good examples would be a great addition to the reference section of this site.
I think if one part is bad, it is fair to question the entire item. I also think that if all other elements are good, it is fair to question if the part believed to be bad, could be good. If it glowed under a blacklight, or someone could link it to a known source of reproductions, I'd likely remove the offending piece. While I respect and appreciate the input from everyone on this board, I'd rather leave a reproduction part on the tunic than risk even the slightest chance of taking apart a good item.
In any event given what I have invested in this piece, I could use it as a warm winter coat and still be ahead of the game.
Thanks,
Ray