UBB.threads Forums General Interest Restoration, Conservation, and Maintenance Forum Horrible SA Runners

I took a look at My Gebr. Becker SA today and noticed that this was a dagger I have not looked at much as what I saw, there were stain marks on 4 places front and back of the blade. I tried to photgraph the stain marks but I could not do it because of the lighting and the angle. I know these marks came from the runners inside the scabbard. So I carefully disassembled it and took a look at what was causing it. Look for a small headed screw driver with no play between the screw and the srewdriver blade. It must fit perfect and not be oversized or undersized. One of the other if misused will marr your screws up. Find the perfect screwdriver first!!! This process is for those who are gifted in mechanics and are able to see things for what they are, through examination and application. If this is not you, then in all regards dont attempt it!!

4. The throat was also coated in what looks like dried oil turned black. This is the end result when someone puts oil into a dagger throat so as to “protect the dagger” per `se, which in the long run didn’t really protect it at all since it was never cared for. I do agree to a point by using a very light oil , but only if the dagger will be managed over time and not forgotten. I feel that this process of taking down a scabbard is not for everyone and I would highly recommend,, if you choose this route, buy a junky SA dagger and take it down. Don’t mix up your screws... take them out and separate them on a piece of paper with a handrawn picture of the upper scabbard fitting so as to see what screws went where!

Plan on spending a few hours on this because this can not be rushed. I am fortunate that this type of runner has the rivet, and not the other type with the lip in the slot style!
My first process is getting as much as the topical crap and the runner stains off with “Neverdull”,, this worked very well but still left the stain marks lightly on the runners in the second photo.

I used simi chrome to loosen the rest of the marks off

All that black stuff is dirt and carbon left in the brass. You also find this on dagger blades if you use simi chrome. This was a messy process but worth it. To clean of the black carbon mess I used small pieces of a cotton t shirt and kept rubbing it off until it was all gone going from Black to gray to light grey to nothing. This itself was a 20 minute process,,, slow and easy,, take your time as if you are waxing your car and appreciate the outcome when your car shines in the sun.

Looks nice huh and no runner stains or marks,, but not done yet!! This was the end result of the "Rubbing process" with the cotton cloth.

Renwax as we know it is the final touch of total protection. I purposely did not clean the throat during this process until later for photographic purposes. IMO the runners in an early SA or SS dagger will either make or break your investment when it is the Blade mostly that draws the most attention, to a perspective buyer. Blade quality is everything with overall dagger quality a close second!

I repeated even more carefully this process on the dagger blade itself and treated it with Renwax in the end. Now the end result is that the dagger slides in quietly into the scabbard with a nice click at the end ,, that we like to hear.
Special note of runner distance between each other and the final phase of putting back together the dagger.
I just wanted to share with everyone my experience with runner crud and how oil sometimes is not the best for it if left unattended for a long period of time. This one seems like it was never taken down and the oil was probably my guess put in there just after the war. I know this topic has been addressed before but protection and conservation of historical artifacts, must be taken seriously, if they are to pass from our hands to the next generation of hands. I still see Model Ts driving on the road to this day and because of conservation, they are a story to live and tell. Appreciate the Honor. Regards Larry

Larry:

Great story and super details for those of us brave enough to try this ourselves.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to document this process.

And, BTW, to show us such a super dagger!

John

Hey John , My pleasure to document this. I will post another thread above this one this weekend, concerning "Upper crossguard screw and throat removal", for those who want to venture into this area. Its all about taking your time and not rushing through it. There are no "Do overs" if you make a mistake. Thanks for the compliment on the dagger, its group marked "Om" I like it alot. Regards Larry

Hi Larry, awesomely nice this, wish I had it, when I tried to clean the scabbard I found way back. Still learned a lot. I cleaned 2 by now, last has only 1 runner in it? Wider runner then the other with 2 runners, like yours here. Never saw a clipped runner, reckon these are eazier to clean? Anyhow, supernice dagger, thanks for this! Goodluck, with the throatcleaning!

Bye,
KR

Hi Karin, good to hear from you! The clipped runner as you say is more of a tab in a slot and it is very difficult to get off and even more diificult to put back on, if the exact tension is not reproduced between the runner blades. End result would be if the runners are too loose would be he sound like " a Little boy dragging a stick upon a white picket fence" that sound would be the runner tab sticking out and rubbing up agains the motto going back into the scabbard. NOT A GOOD SOUND and not correctly refitted. The tab must be perfect in the slot. Check out Ralfs SA book where he has some exposed runners. He has one of each. Near the beginning of his book,, as I am at work right now and dont have the reference in front of me. No throat cleaning here, but I will address on how to remove one from a scabbard if someone wants to venture there. Nice to hear fom you Karin,, regards Larry

Good job, Larry.
Talking about runners - look what I've found...
GD must stand for GermanDaggers

Thanks Larry, and, youre welcome

*LOL*@777, good one Still, very nice to see marked runners!

Here is a Horrible runner from another dagger that I took down and I was very surprised and nauseated at the same time. It seems as though someone thought that the runner in this dagger did not have a tight enough fit and took it upon themselves to create an artificial wave type surface to give the dagger blade a snug fit in the scabbard. ..WRONG!! ..It didn’t.

For you McHales Navy fans when I saw this “scarecrow” alteration,, Capt. Binghamton said it best below

Nice sunset picture Huh? Look at that runner laying there all spread open like that,, looks like a beautiful ending to a story. Unfortunately the “scarecrow” thought he was helping this runner out. This runner IMO can not be returned to its original shape as the damage has been done and once this type of metal is bent and can not be reversed. Looks to me if the scarecrow had a brain he would not of used pliers to squeeze together the runners and warp them.

This is a disservice to the dagger in its entirety as the blade itself is the soul and character of this piece of history. If your not sure of what your doing when taking down a scabbard,, don’t let the scarecrow whisper in your ear,,” I think it will be ok!”

A couple of posts from a guy selling vacuum cleaners from Korea are gone