UBB.threads Forums General Interest Community Center I feel ashamed of my collection ambitions

I'm a huge history buff. I love learning about history and i've collected some historical artifacts. I've not yet aquired any genuine nazi relics, but am interested in purchasing a Hitler Youth knife. Some people would look at owning such a thing as offensive or they assume i sympathise with the nazi's or their views which i absolutly do NOT.

How can i turn my shame into pride? How can i explain owning such a thing to people so they won't make wrong assumptions or look at me in a negitive light?

Thanks guys!

John

They are war trophies. You are able to collect them because we won the war. If we hadn't you would be speaking German or Japanese.

If you think you would feel shamed by owning something with a Swastika on it, my advice would be to get into another area of collecting.
You seem to be viewing this in advance as some dark, evil relic rather than legit historical object, and thats not a good way to go in.
I say "To hell with what others think". You don't need to justify yourself to anyone.

John every one of us at some point has had to resolve this in our own minds.

To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing. -Elbert Hubbard

I agree with Skynyrd. If you have doubts or a nagging feeling about Nazi collectibles, redirect your interest to another area. You don't want to by a collectible and later wonder why you did or feel "shame" about it. Nazi memorabilia are artifacts from the greatest war the world has ever known and probably ever will know. They represent a regime of ultimate evil, but that does not make the objects themselves "bad." Most are extremely well made, displaying exemplary craftsmanship and many could be considered art objects, due to their designs and workmanship. They are historical relics, worthy of being collected and preserved. I have never known of a true collector who advocates Nazism or any other radical philosophy. You collect for the enjoyment and camaraderie. You learn to ignore irrational criticism of your interests. If you can sleep at night and smile when you think of your collection, you've arrived!

If you buy a Hitler Youth knife, and a German Boy Scout knife, you will have two almost identical knives with different inserts. That is the best way to explain history and what happened.

I like to display Ghetto art next to my Nazi Daggers. Puts them in the proper historic perspective.

But, others have said, if you don't like it, don't collect it. and that includes swasticas.

John I posted this on another forum where the discussion was something like what you are saying, I will post the whole excerpt because i know (some of it) applies to your thoughts. Dont be ashamed! There is nothing wrong about having an interest in History. If there is no interest then who will teach it?? Regards Larry

Originally Posted by Siegfried B
The TR period will be as collectible as any other period in time where there is an interest. 146 years later the American Civil war is still highly collectible, at least mostly within our own age group. There are a few exceptions for those who are younger and do have an interest in these time periods. Picassos and Rembrandts are still collectible for those of that interest, and millions are spent on paintings!!
Right now during this time is the TR Stock Market "Running of the Bulls" as most of the TR items are very affordable due to people panicking and selling their Personal TR stock. Now is the best time to collect and hold on to these items because in time the economy will rebound,,, it always does and by then the door will be closed for the majority of items once affordable.

There still is a Mysticism within the swastika that still attracts many people into this arena of darkness, that commands the beholder ,, of wanting to know more. Not everyone can see this relevance and dismiss it as evil rubbish. Where there is no education and a refusal to learn, then ignorance is born.
Many times most of all collectors out of ignorance have been called "Nazis" insensitive and sick!
We are no more Nazis than those who are collectors of Civil war memorabilia and are called supporters of slavery. Gimme a break!!
Makes me wonder about people who take their deceased pets to the taxidermist,, but I guess its just as strange as collecting this kind of history,, but what do i know,,JMO!!
I am glad to see what younger people are stepping into this period in time because they saw something that caught their eye and found it intriguing.
There is more than just owning a dagger and saying " yea i got one of these" but learning about the history of that item whatever it may be intensifies the desirability and adds a slight coldness, to the real truth of what happened during those times.
History must be taught and passed on.
Those who have an interest were chosen to carry it on and others were not bestowed this provenance.
Fakers and scammers are the greatest evil and a cancerous rot in this hobby which destroys the new collectors interest totally,, and all for a short term gain.
Sadly though ,,deception is not just on the outside of this hobby but also within our own ranks of a small few (NOT ALL) of those we think we trust. We have seen it and it hurts us too.
I am proud and enjoy this hobby immensely regardless of ignorance and I will do my best to pass it on.
78 years later 1933 to present time there still is alot to learn.

Who cares what anyone else thinks? I certainly dont!!! The majority of us just collect this stuff because its interesting and its a hobby, nothing else. I guess as long were not uncovering our Adolf Hitler shrine every night to worship, i guess theres not a problem. JMO

Many folks will take great umbrage with whatever you choose to do in life..from what field you choose to work in, to what brand of car you drive, to the clothes you wear.

As the saying goes, you can't please everybody so learn to please yourself.

Collect what you wish and disregard what others say.

Understandable John...was just reading how ruthless the Nazi were.....on the other hand these are artifacts!

You're not pulling our leg are you, Mr. Hyde ?

Doug, I'm not the one viewing my collection ambitions as shameful. I'm just fearful of what others would think of such a collection hence the reason i'm seeking advice on how to deal with peoples reactions when they see or hear about my collection.

Paul from lakesidetrader was actually the guy who suggested this forum to post my concerns. thanks for your reasponse!

John you would be amazed at how much people have to hide in their own lives as shameful. When a person such as ourselves in the collecting and historical field has something to show,, it is the hypocrites who want to take the spot life off of their own lives and point the accusing finger at someone else who is trying to uphold history,, or anything , unknown to them they consider it bad. No one has a perfect life!!
Do you live in fear John? Do you let someone dictate how you should live your life?..Not me!! It is the majority in any sense or subject that thinks if more people think like themselves then it must be true! The media is the #1 culprit in destroying anyones belief in anything, if they feel they dont like it.
What I see on put on TV anymore is a crime for young children to watch because of the content,, and this is deemed acceptable? Nope not according to the watchdogs who decide for us that its acceptable. I just said a funny thing "Decide for us" who is it that decides that this period in history is a crime compared to what we view everyday inside and outside of our homes?
Dont fall prey John to what everyone else thinks,,and to those on the "Bandwagon" because someone else said so.
If someone doesnt like what they see,, thats ok,, its their opinion and not law. They also dont have to return either,, their choice. I sleep very well at night regardless of what others think. As I said above in an earlier post,,a refusal to learn is the beginning of ignorance,,and it is out of fear that many people will not learn because of what the majority thinks and how they themselves will be viewed. This is one of the main reasons why that some History is not taught anymore in schools. Not educating our youth in history is stealing IMO. But now its not stealing its called protecting. I call it sick!!
Guns kill according to uneducated majorities,, not people,, but people kill when they hit someone with their car,, but cars dont kill. Strange! Do you understand what Im getting at? How people will twist something into what they want to believe!
Remember the masses when an uneducated majority was fed with one idea and jackboots were heard later. Enjoy your collection I sure as hell enjoy mine.

here is my opinion all be it right or wrong. who the heck cares what YOU do with YOUR time and money. I have found that most people are so interested in this era, but noone wants to admit it...kinda like if you like disco but dont want your friends to know...LOL! you only live once, so do what YOU want to do, who cares what someone else thinks. this hobby is a great one, and the heck with those that dont understand. there, after a few years away, my first reply. it has been a long time. do what YOU want to do, not what others want YOU to do.

Well, interesting dilemmas you have... I think it's better for you to totally avoid such Politically Incorrect hobby.

Most of the German artifacts in the USA today were brought home by US service men. They saw the beauty and quality of the workmanship in these items, and held a special place for them.
THEY certainly were not nazis, ....Neither are those who collect them now. A lot of relics are now passing from vets and their
families into the hands of a new generation of collectors.
We are the keepers of history, and as collectors we have an obligation to preserve and accurtely represent these things.

At least some kids will be well educated

Breathtaking display Adam!! Your children are very fortunate to have Great parents! Keep those doors locked for now until they get older. Little fingers = alot of finger prints ,,,,and some with peanut butter on them! Best regards Larry

Dedicate a room in your house to Holly Hobbie and Strawberry Shortcake to even things out.

I have been a member of a 12-step organization for a lONG time. One of the first things I learned there was "What other people think about me and say about me is none of my business!" Only I know my motives. As was said earlier, there will always be someone who has something negative to say about almost everything. I've also learned that when someone points a finger at me there are three fingers pointing back at them. I am interested in many different types of things: old cars--I shouldn't because its a waste of money, doo-wops--I'm so Old fashioned, militaria from all counties--why honor things where so many people were killed,etc. Get the idea? If I allowed the opinioms of others to judge what I can enjoy or not and why, I'll be sitting on my couch watching TV thats not on because the programs I watch might offend someone. Unfortunately, The Nazis did some horrible things. I collect TR not to glorify them but if I need to validate my reasoning, I can say I collect the symbols of the vanquished. WE won not them, otherwise the Germans would be collecting US items. These are JUST the spoils of war---NOTHING MORE!! In closing, let me say that this is America. I don't have to explain why I do what I do. I have the right to collect or not collect anything I choose(within legal perameters)When someone(who is important to me) asks, I simply say "I collect it because I like it and it makes me happy!" Thanks for presenting me an opportunity to rant, but this is a pet peeve for me. And what I said here in ONLY my opinion!

You can discuss a lot about what it means to collect the nazi blades but for me all depends on what you feel when you hold your newly purchased SS HJ SA DLV or whatever. Does it make you happy? HOW does it make you feel when you go to a room with your collection?

Exactly! my collection makes my very happy when i see it and i don't give a f*** what any one else thinks, i collect for ME not others!!

Look, I was ragged by kids in school when I started collecting back in 1955. I never took it to heart though! If you enjoy it, then do it!

My opinioo exactly! I couldn't have said it better.

I ment 'opinion'

If any of you really feel that bad, box it up and sent to me

I am Ashamed @ myself for reading this.

Sepp

BTW. On the comment of Nazis winning the war - would they be collecting the US militaria?... There is a book by F.Dick "Man of a high castle" - I think describing exactly this alternative reality. In this case it is Japan that is occupying USA (at least part of it) - the other is the german part. Lots of intresting referals to collecting comunity - how are the Japanies treating the US Artifacts from the past and the "fake production" cancer that is spreading destroying the market. Really interesting piece of SF literature.

I still think that if one must ask the question "what will people think, and how will I deal with their reactions", then they should not take the plunge. People collect things for their own satisfaction & motives, the reaction of others should play no part at all.
Don't get me wrong, I don't have TR items laying all over my house, or fly Nazi banners from my truck. Neither do I leave my WW2 USMC knives laying carelessly about either. There are only so many people that most anyone feel comfortable enough to offer them into the privacy of our homes. Close friends, and family ... And if they are going to get buggered out by Swastikas, then maybe they ought not be in your house.

On the other hand, the little kid in all of us, I think, does desire to own something "taboo", and TR relics might fit that bill to a certain degree. SS collectors openly joke about this, saying "welcome to the dark side!" to new collectors who have acquired their first SS item.
I guess I can see how some folks might find this area of collecting morbid. There is no more infamous, blood stained organizations in history than the Nazis in general, and the SS in particular. They have been 100% vilified for better than half a century, so it may be quite natural for certain folks to assume that you have sympathy with Nazi doctrine if you collect their regalia.
They'll never understand, so thats why I say "Let em think what they want" - I don't feel compelled to explain or justify myself in the slightest degree, unless I happen to feel like a little argument.

Another aspect for the OP, if he is indeed serious - The stuff may creep you out. I got TR laying all over my room, and it doesn't bother me any more than my fan, or stereo. They are interesting, colorful, historical intimate objects. But judging from your sensitivity, it may give you the creeps, or worse yet, you might feel they are possessed with evil Nazi spirits, and ,,, Well, all sorts of things can happen then. Be well advised to start off slow, in any case.
We are all just normal Joes here, Mr Hyde. We come from all walks of life, and professions. I have a myriad of other hobbies and interest, this is just one, and I do enjoy it. Try it, maybe you'll like it, maybe not - Only 1 way to find out !

I guess that I should really bad due to my focus in collecting is the NSDAP!

ditto - talk about a waste of time and effort.

And as Dave says box it up and ship it to me.

A most excellent post Doug,,,I would also like to add along with it being interesting and colorfully historical, but IMO I deem them works of art. There were many designers who thought up these ideas and how they should look and what the final appeal would be. Many may not agree with My "works of art " thoughts but isnt it The Art Deco of anything that catches our eye visually,, and stir in us the desire to appreciate? To this day the amount of detail and thought that went into creating everything for this time period takes my breath away. Isnt it visually appealing for those who collect daggers to pick up a mint conditioned early maker dagger and say WOW! thats nice. Craftmanship is an art form. We as collectors have recognized what the TR represents, but also we have separated ourselves from that idea and focused our thoughts and energies in collecting and the preservation of this time period in History. Craftmanship IS a Form Of Art!

Works of art, absolutely ! Europe in general, and Germany in particular, blows the USA away in that regards. The stunning variety & quality of workmanship is to be found no where else.
I meant to say "inanimate" instead of "intimate" - Shows you where my mind was at !