UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Luftwaffe dagger, 2nd model

I am new to the forum and having received as a gift from my eldest son a luftwaffe dagger I have a few questions. I have been told that the portapee is a generals. The overall condition is good, although that is from photos sent to some of my associates on the luger forum. The gilt on the nazi emblem on the pommels both sides is about 85%. I understand that the overall color of the scabbard was originally grey, my scabbard is a dull green. I need to know what can be cleaned, what should be left alone and what kinds of cleaners to use. This dagger was purchased from a WW2 vets estate sale and by the looks of it has been stored since he returned from the war.I will try to post pictures soon. Thank you, Lugermac

Welcome to the forum!


I agree, and think that leaving it alone would be the first thing while the dagger is being looked at to see just what it is that you have. I’ve seen color changes to a gray/green on period WWII U.S. firearms that were “Parkerized” (gray phosphate). But without seeing it that is just a guess at this point. FP

Very nice looking unmessed with dagger. Congrats!(I definately vote for not cleaning. Take it from me I cleaned a few back when I started collecting and regretted it!) Is there a maker mark on the blade under the swastika of the crossguard,or is it an unmarked blade? I can tell you the hilt fittings are the generic type(nice gilt on swazes!) and the scabbard is made by Eickhorn Solingen. Kevin.

P.S. Nice deluxe hangers, and your portopee is from a Luftwaffe enlisted bayonet! These daggers used an all Aluminum thread portopee with thin round cord and acorn "knot".

I will take a newly arrived dagger or bayonet and will use a very soft cloth and some Renwax to try to clean the blade and the fittings (Renwax can be used on everything).

Renwax will also coat the surfaces and prevent future corrosion.

Do not use solvents or abrasives at all. The only exception that I make to this rule is that there are some kinds of corrosion, like rust or that nasty green slimy stuff, that, if left untreated, will continue to spread and to destroy your item. Here, I will use Simichrome or something like it to remove the nasty stuff.

John

Nice dagger be careful on the pommel swaz using a cleaner on it may take off the remaining gold .Welcome to the site.

I don’t have a problem with (very gently) removing active rust from a polished steel blade. (But don’t like what some (but not all) collectors will do, which is (re) polishing a blade in an attempt to try and make it look brand new.)

But I’m not sure what I would do myself (if anything) with the gray phosphate finish. With the steel scabbard more of a concern than the handle parts. That’s because in a couple of the images I might be seeing a small indicator of emerging rust? And with the lighting of the images I seem to be seeing more yellowish than gray (on the sides also?) - but that could be just the lighting.

To cut to the chase: With WW II U.S. GI firearms that had a gray phosphate finish. There is generally an agreement that it was the preservatives like oil/grease that over time changed the color of what is not a metal plating like nickel, but is an organic finish. My point being that the original finish can be permanently affected. So for myself, other than looking at maybe doing something with the blade (if there is corrosion) some more pictures might help. Because once finish and/or patina is removed - you can’t put it back. FP

Thank you all for your input, The makers mark is under the Nazi emblem on the pommel and it is from carl eichorn. I have seen daggers advertised and the makers mark is located on the obverse side of the handle so that it is visible. Which location is correct? The blade is very nice, there are two areas where the blade shows some rust, looks like finger print acid etch on the steel. The blade over all is covered with a grease or oil residue very similar to what I find on many of my old unmessed with Lugers. Was it common for the user to oil or grease the blade?. I would like to clean the blade and remove the rust print marks, what is the best way to do this? I have seen several daggers advertised on the web like this that look as though they were hermetically sealed for the last seventy years. In ten years of Luger collecting I find it difficult to accept these items as genuine,especially considering what I am holding in my hand. however I could be wrong. I have a lot to learn about these relics. Can any of you gents give me an idea as to when this specimen was created? Thanks again, I will read posts on this subject with interest. Lugermac

Hi Mac,

I can tell you that it is a model of 1937 so was made in that year or up until they stopped production in the early '40s. A pic of the maker mark could help narrow it down as Eickhorn used a couple of different ones during that period. Also, most manufacturers, Eickhorn being one, put their mark on the back side of the blade. So it looks like yours was taken apart at some time as they can go back together either way.

Lance

Hi Mac
By looking at the photo your blade it appears to look quite short in comparison to the scabbard, could it have been re-tipped at some point?

Regards Adam

Thanks for the dating info, I do not know how long the blade on these daggers should be, If you give me the correct measurement I can answer your question. Thanks again. Oh, I would also like to know how I can obtain a correct Portapee for this dagger. Lugermac

According to Mr Johnson the blade should be 41cm (16.2").

Regards Adam

Officers and senior grade NCO's wore the officer's portepee. But not the lower ranks of enlisted men with flight status, who were also authorized to wear the dagger, but without the portepee. So the fact that it came from the GI's estate with an EM bayonet knot, I think might open the door to the dagger possibly never having the officer's Portepee (PS: I'm not saying bayonet knots were OK, only that the two came together presumably from the same source). FP

Just a thought guys as far as the greenish tint, could be Nicotine blue/grey+yellow=green.Many relics hung on walls
for years in rooms thick with cigarette smoke a quick sniff
could confirm this. Welcome to the forum! Geoff.