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#246391 06/09/2011 01:14 PM
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Mac 66 Offline OP
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I really think this forum has died a death over the past few years with not much posting going on & a lack of replies to people needing help on there items, also what happened to all the very useful info that we had on the old site when you done a search?, i preferred the old site to this one & i think thats whats helped to kill GD.Com, what are your thoughts & opinions on this matter?

Last edited by Mac 66; 06/09/2011 01:15 PM.
Mac 66 #246398 06/09/2011 03:43 PM
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I think the reasons are very simple and I don't think that it has to do with GDC, I think it is a world wide trend.
First of all, there are no newcomers to the hobby, look at the average age of collectors at the SOS/Max show, frightening, it looks like an old aged convention reunion.
Second, prices have gone wild and in today's world many people just can't afford that kind of stuff no more.
Third, many unscrupulous dealers and collectors alike have cheated tons of collectors and have killed the passion.
Lastly, we are tired of always repeating the same old things over and over again.
When GDC first came to exist about 10 years ago, it was the first web site of its kind dealing with TR artifacts, many questions were to be asked and all have been answered but after 10 years, we pretty much went all around avery aspect of the hobby.
There ain't much to be discussed anymore, except for those just showing off their old collections.
I for one been collecting for more than 10 years and I used to be very active, only reason why I'm now much more quieter is simply that I'm tired of the same old stuff.
However, I still love the hobby but do not participate in every discussions like I used to.

Cheers


Pat

Last edited by Pat; 06/09/2011 03:44 PM.
Mac 66 #246399 06/09/2011 03:44 PM
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Not dead Mac, only sleeping....
Im sure the economy has a lot to do with it, window shopping isn't much fun for anybody. As things pick up, im sure old interests will be re-kindled and posts will start to re-appear.
Additionally of course nobody likes to have their prized possesions shot to pieces, and that does happen quite frequently on GDC, sometimes not in the kindest way, however if an opinion is asked for, no-one should take offence if the answer isn't always the one sought.
paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
patrice #246405 06/09/2011 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pat
When GDC first came to exist about 10 years ago, it was the first web site of its kind dealing with TR artifacts, many questions were to be asked and all have been answered but after 10 years, we pretty much went all around avery aspect of the hobby.
There ain't much to be discussed anymore, except for those just showing off their old collections.

Cheers


Pat


So what have we become just a bunch of old sobs trying to have a shiner car than the next guys. NO!!!!! the depth of this or any "hobby" is endless come on. I just noted a comment on a gun forum asking is this all there is to collecting. get out look at put away. man no wonder new people dont wanna play in this sandbox. the hobby is alive and going places not at 140 mph grant you. I'm really gettin sick of this "drive through" mentality. we dont wanna repeat info,the grip color theory makes people mad,period.jeez everyone knows thats a "x" hey how much is a X worth. Its the internet folks.. lighten up. I'll have an update this weekend with 2 new tags ok hows that spicy enough!!!!!! a metal PDL tag one of very few known and even a rare ed wusthof and a few revisions of errors I have made in the last 11 years. i guess if you collectors are not eenjoying the hobby as much Im looking for a Paul Sielheimer hang tag to purchase and one of those SMF fake repos from 2001 or 02 I'll even take HQ images from someone and give them credit. Sad more of you guys dont care about "YOUR HOBBY"
http://militaryedgedweapons.com/germandaggerhangtaggallery.htm

Bret Van Sant
"not having all the answers for nearly 50 years"

cog-hammer #246411 06/09/2011 06:24 PM
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For whatever reasons we all have to admit that this forum is not close to what it once was.far more traffic and many, many more posts back in the day...the SS forum was the "hub" of activity and the place to be but it appears nearly dead now. There were amazing headgear and uniform posts but not any longer.....just my take.....look at the many respected names in the hobby that have departed or gone elsewhere due to infighting, arrogance, and general snubbs....shame as this is a good forum and the only one to which I have ever belonged or supported.....even I have been tempted to leave more than once...cheers

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Oh my how I yearn for the good old days to come back here. Sponge Bob where are you when we need you the most?

Dow Cross #246419 06/09/2011 07:36 PM
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I wasn't going to say anything here but I've changed my mind.
It's IMO is NOT the economy or the other forums like WAF would be dead as well.

I sent Vern Bryant a private message on this subject awhile back and told him he was free to post my observations if he chose to do so. So far this hasn't happened.
Jim

anonymous 123 #246425 06/09/2011 09:58 PM
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It's not just here. Things are slow all over,,[who was at the SOS? sleep]...

I visit the other sites pretty regular..
In the last year one forum site is now only to look at old topics,,2 more are even slower than here. True WAF is busier but I'd say they are operating at half and some of the topics are nonsense and guys that can't or don't know how to use the 'Search' function [many topics in SS section: 'Is this SS visor skull good! cry'] .
There are a few German language forums but they too are super slow,,same with the few Russian/Soviet forums.

Economies are bad all over the world. Collectors are spending less and less. Theres also less and less authentic pieces out there. Times are tough and will be for a while longer..

Gaspare #246430 06/09/2011 11:52 PM
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Lots of true observations about slowness of the economy and prices being high.

One interesting one is that all the questions have been asked and that the senior members are tired of repeating themselves. True in some respects. I know several of the senior guys and exchange email and see them at shows, but they just don't want to post. As for repetition, yes, the same questions come up again and again. I never tire of helping new guys, but it seems to bother others. As for "all the questions have been asked", I see many new ones each week. Either new (or new fake) items or penetrating questions about known items. We just a good one on diplomatic daggers. We have seen a lot interesting threads on Eastern European daggers too.

As for "no new members", someone is not looking at the posts. We are getting quite a few new guys from all over particularly Europe who are contributing good info.

Lastly, "the hobby is dead because of prices and its just old farts anyway" laugh. Well, yes, there are quite a few of us "OFs" or "wrinklies" as they say in Great Britain, but the young folks are there too. There was a militaria show in Raleigh last weekend ($6 to get in, under 12 free) and the younger generation was there:

- One young man about 8 had downloads of all WWII medals and was hunting through the box with the common ribbon bars ($1 each, or 6 for $5, campaign stars extra 50c each) and bought 6, with his father approving. He asked me if there were D-Day medals since Monday was June 6 !

- A young lady about 20 was looking for WWII sweetheart pins. I asked her and she said she had been given her Great Grandmother's pin which had a two star (sons in service) pin with a chain to a miniature division pin and she was looking for more.

- Another young man maybe 7 looking for inexpensive German medals, with his dad helping.

Also quite a few young adults looking through the various tables and buying a few things.

We don't see these at the SOS or Max. They cannot afford the time off, the hotel fees and the admission.

Dave

Dave #246433 06/10/2011 12:22 AM
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People come and go in any hobby. With some of the more popular and mainstream hobbies this is also true, but there is a greater pool to replace the folks that move on ( either interest wise or more permanently..!)

Militaria is a narrow focus hobby with very few people interested in all eras.Those that form the core are getting on in years and while there is some new blood coming in, I just don't see the sustained interest in the kinds of items we so dearly love.

As for the prices, there cannot be but a drop once the vast majority of the 'alte garde' have moved on down the line.We are already seeing the seeds of this; how many large shows have you attended that were all but dead? How many of the more common items sit on tables or online year after year?

If you want to see the beginning of the last gasps of outrageous dealer prices, see how items are priced in this economy.The prices being asked are even higher to offset the stock that does not move.Many hope to get the one big score rather than wait for less desirable items to move.

I think it would be worthwhile to do an exit survey of younger folks to see if we are on target with this. After all, if they are supposed to be the life blood of this hobby going forward, shouldn't we at least be asking the right questions to the right people?

Doug Kenwright #246492 06/10/2011 11:25 PM
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Over the last 10 years i have been on here about once a year somebody gets on and says the same thing,lol, were still here.It is slow post wise,but it started getting slow and slower as the economy went south, a lot of the average collectors arent spending and some are selling out due to the economy.I havent posted much in the last year because im getting lazy and doing other things.Watch as the economy picks up the post will pick up. At the moment most people have other things on there mind (like hoping they still have jobs and taking care of family). As per the young new blood being the lifeline of the hobby, bulls*** the under 30 age group have never been or will ever be large in size, do the math they dont made as much or have as much free income to spend on the hobby. Im betting the majority of new collectors are at least 30 or 40 and face it, its the old farts that have alway been the majority of collectors , its not a cheap hobby and wasnt a cheap hobby (compared to what a item cost to how much you made back then) back in 60s. The economy will rebound and so will the hobby and forum. Just my 2 cents worth.


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We may not be the biggest forum, but there are more guys here who I know and whose opinion I respect.

As for the younger crowds we do see several younger kids that "get it" and collect what they can. We try to trade with them and teach them what to look for an not get burned. We just gave away about 200 free US patches to kids at the Milwaukee VA event this past weekend.


JERRY
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Mr. Jerry #246507 06/11/2011 02:51 AM
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Well, I guess i'll chime in on this one. Im turning 41 on the 30th. And I would like to think myself as a young collecter(about 5 years)I just joined this forum a couple months ago. Haven't got to "serious" untell about a year ago. I looked around the enternet awhile tell I found this forum. Liked it so much I joined and I come on everyday to read new things. Emailed Mike and he sent me a MCSARR, the guy signed it to me and everthing! For a new collecter that is a big boost. I think you are on the right track as to the economy being part of it. I was finding it had to get a deal on daggers so I deceided to go a different route. I started buying parts (I know some would look down on parts daggers) I would study on what grips went with what croosgaurds and with what blades. You collect a large amount of items but I like the results. I don't do it to resell it's for my personal collection. I have learned so much more coming to the site that I would hate to see it go. I'm am know getting to a better situation that im starting to look at up grading to more premium daggers for my collection. I find it hard where I live (northwest) a little lacking in german II relics. So alittle hard to get a good amount of items to compare. But I keep looking, so for you "old timers" out there just to let you know that the hobby isnt dead yet it burns deep in my soul.(everyday,just ask my girlfiend LOL)

Brian Ray #246514 06/11/2011 06:08 AM
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Dont get me wrong Jerry there are younger collectors,but they are a small percentage of the total, more 30-40 range and alot more 50-60 age range. Vinnie was one of the younger collectors (i think he was 16 when he joined the forum) and there is Spencer Victory and Johnny ( i think they are under 30) and im sure there are a few more on the forum but percentage wise its low.

P.S. i wish we had a section on our profile page that showed age, i like to know if im talking with a 18 year old or a 60 year old collector

Last edited by Earl (Rick) Schreiber; 06/11/2011 06:14 AM.

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Forgot Jerry. US patches are a great way of introducing young (age wise) collector to the militaria collecting field. There afforable have lots of history and eventually lead the collector to third reich relics.


Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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well once again the thread has arisen .I still feel that the reason for our demise is the tone of the people that are on here.Yes i do go to waf don't see much of that going on a little but not like here.Also you don't have someone delete every thread cause they don't like it that in full was the reason i left.The economy does suck but people still have time for tere passion but really folks who in there right mind is going to pay 400 up for an sa dagger when there are millons of them produced oh i see it is a 6 or 7 on a list that makes it worth that much.really when you look at the prices we command on or stuff we cut our on throat we priced our self out of the park.I sold an sa on payment plans by the time the guy payed it off he could have turned round and made 200.00 .My gift to the younger generation i have a nephew going to annapolis upon his grad his father shall present to him free from my collection one of the best army dagger that i ever had i hope just hope it sparks a new collector if not oh well.my two cent

reichstall #246536 06/11/2011 05:02 PM
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There is no shortage of militaria and supply far exceeds the demand for it. The prices doubled in about 5 years from when I started collecting and I said at the time that it was not sustainable. The dealer`s are marking stuff up far beyond it`s true value but they are not by any means the only ones.

For months I have been looking for a nice tunic at what I believe is a fair price. I usually look at the WAF uniform section on a daily basis. Take a look for yourself and you will see that collectors wanting to sell to fellows are asking the most extraordinary prices for what in my opinion for the most part is tat. Tatty moth nibbled junk that I wouldn`t even want to have in my collection at any price.

One guy had a tunic I was mildly interested because of the condition. (not really the rank or branch that I was after but nice). I waited for him to lower his price again. He did not & nobody bought it. The topic expired and got deleted so I contacted him. Guess what? He put the price up above what he had advertised it at! Ha Ha!

They really are as mad as balloons!

I have bought very little in the last couple of years, not because of a waning interest but quite simply because I will not pay more for something than I believe it is worth.

In this I do not believe I am alone.

Helmet`s? don`t even go there! Mad, quite mad!

Last edited by Landser; 06/11/2011 05:03 PM.

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Landser #246563 06/11/2011 11:22 PM
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You are correct that there is no shortage of militaria and supply exceeds demand. Most of it however is low grade common stuff that will probably never sell. Endless web gear, tech sergeant tunics, shot out SMLEs, good conduct medals and the like. Look at SOS or MAX and you will see endless tables of this.

Now if you are talking about desirable militaria, demand exceeds supply. and it sells well if reasonably priced. Go to any show and watch

Dave #246566 06/11/2011 11:36 PM
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Collectors often will sit on their items hoping for a big score; sometimes that day never comes.

A longtime collector died recently around my area, and his items were sold off at pennies on the dollar.

None of it went to other collectors from what I could tell, mostly local antique shop dealers.

Amongst the items? SS officers sword, SS full Rohm, 2 German crosses in silver and a complete A-SS tunic ( with original awards and insignia)as brought back from Occupied Germany in 1947.

The price for these items? $2,200.00

I kid you not.One man in attendance told me that it was the first time he could remember such items garnering little to no collector interest.This economy is tough.

Doug Kenwright #246568 06/11/2011 11:43 PM
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Quote:
"Collectors often will sit on their items hoping for a big score; sometimes that day never comes."

Ever so often in my roaming about at estate and garage sales I'll come across a big box of Beanie Babies. I have been told on more than one occasion that the purchaser had bought these as a solid investment but the opportunity to sell at a good price never seems to come. They(usually a she) can't understand why people are no longer clammoring to buy them. I rarely will say anything but usually make a quick exit so as not to break out in uncontrolled laughter!! cry grin grin
Jim

Dave #246572 06/12/2011 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Hohaus
You are correct that there is no shortage of militaria and supply exceeds demand. Most of it however is low grade common stuff that will probably never sell.


Yes Dave I agree but even this low grade stuff is way over-priced so that even the budget collector is frozen out. I have generally bought quality stuff and that which isn`t in the best of condition is somewhat scarce. Early Henckels slant grip heer is one example. true that good stuff always has a market but Doug`s post above is very sobering!

Last edited by Landser; 06/12/2011 12:19 AM.

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Landser #246574 06/12/2011 01:17 AM
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My point above about the Beanie Babies is if your into that or militaria as an investment you may someday be in for a rude awakening. I think just about anyone now thinks Beanie Babie collecting was pretty dumb. But have you considered just how much of the general public would also say the same thing about collecting militaria? For the record; I think it's pretty much agreed to that militaria has stood up well in holding it's value over time. However IMO: If you bought heavily(daggers for example) 3-5 years ago when prices were at their peak it may be quite some time before you can sell the items and even break even.
Again IMO: Enjoy militaria collecting at what it's supposed to be A HOBBY. If you eventually make some money collecting so be it.
Jim

anonymous 123 #246581 06/12/2011 03:39 AM
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Amen Jim!!!
Brian

Brian Ray #246584 06/12/2011 06:52 AM
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Again, last year was much bigger than the year before for me in sales. Also, last year's income from the hobby was twice as much as I ever made in one year of Pharmacy work, so business is great. However, MOST of it is going overseas. I feel bad that the US boys are suffering a loss (potential and future) at this time, but maybe the market will change after the next election.


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Ronald Weinand #246593 06/12/2011 12:55 PM
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Hi Ron,

Just curious, who are the biggest buyers in Europe nowadays ?
Certainly NOT the British, French or Germans but is it still the Russians ?

patrice #246594 06/12/2011 02:28 PM
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Jim:

To note, I did buy a lot of stuff about 3-5 years ago. I had money to burn at the time and cared way more for particular items than I did for the cost of them.

But, in my case, I did NOT buy these items with the intention of reselling them, so that factor never entered into my thinking.

I did try to buy the best of conditions and the rare/unique items.

My collecting direction did change over the past year and I have moved out of some of my collecting interests. But, having bought quality, I find that I can move my items. Those that I cannot move due to price, I wait on. Eventually, these will move as well.

So, the prices of items are not irrelevant, but they are as much determined by what people want to pay as they are by what people want to get for them.

How many times have we seen repeated reductions in the price of items listed for sale here or on WAF or elsewhere? And, how many times have we seen dealers have 'special sales'? Or, to test it even more, make an offer to a dealer on one or more of his items... will it be accepted? The market price is just that, what the market (you and I and a whole bunch of other collectors) wants to pay.

I think that some of the price contraction in this hobby is also due to the exit or disappointment suffered by 'speculators', those people who buy only for the upside and are not truly collectors. When the upside disappears, so do they and they take their inflationary pressures with them.

John

Last edited by JohnZ; 06/12/2011 02:29 PM. Reason: spelling

Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
JohnZ #246595 06/12/2011 02:56 PM
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Quote:
"I think that some of the price contraction in this hobby is also due to the exit or disappointment suffered by 'speculators', those people who buy only for the upside and are not truly collectors. When the upside disappears, so do they and they take their inflationary pressures with them."

John:
The above is certainly another aspect here and one,to a degree, that has been discussed before. You present an alternative scenario to the speculator.* You buy excellent quality,pay the price to acquire items in this category and have the financial means to just retain the items if the overall market goes sour as it has presently done.
I look at my own collection as fluid with the understanding that anything in it is and perhaps most of it will be subject to sale at some time as my interests change. However; I have never been in nor do I intend to ever get in the position where I Have to sell some items. This is what I believe has happened to the speculators in this hobby particularly those that overextended them selves.
As I have said before; This to me is a hobby. Unless you are a full time dealer in militaria I would think it would be prudent to treat collecting that way.

*The term "investor" is probably apropriate here but I personally don't consider hobbies an investment and as a matter of fact neither does the IRS. Just try putting a bunch of daggers into an IRA.
Jim

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Those that buys daggers for an investment are in for a big surprise down the road.
Only dealers will make you believe that these are an investment ..............pure non sense. crazy

The only time that it is an investment is when you can buy it cheap, most likely from a vet which has no clue about the real value of things, and then selling it back.
However, you will NEVER get such a bargain deal buying through a main stream dealer, niet.

patrice #246605 06/12/2011 05:16 PM
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interesting topic. I think that the future price increase possible only if the US dollar collapses or Nazi will be recognized and honored in the future by the leading countries (which is very unlikely in the near future) The increase in the past decade was due to the internet making it possible for the collectors to see and buy without attending the shows and to the collapse of the iron curtain and making it possible to East Europeans to buy the staff. Russians have great interest in WWII German Items. This interest is not the same as before, the market in Russian and other Eastern European Countries is full with TR items now. The Asian raising economies, on the other hands, do not give a sh-t about TR items, the rich chinese for example, so another wave from that avenue is not possible. I think it is time to sell and overseas is a much better choice of selling. They pay more money for now. Looking at the bail out of Greece and possible collapse of Euro, the prices of TR staff here can actually depreciate even further. IMO

Oleg1 #246628 06/12/2011 08:50 PM
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I'm still trying to figure out which country OVERSEAS is doing well ???????
There can't be too many countries that collect that kind of stuff anyway.

patrice #246631 06/12/2011 10:02 PM
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Just think of all the amazing items that reside in former Eastern Bloc countries (and Russia) that we have never seen!

patrice #246635 06/12/2011 11:10 PM
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Who is buying ? Some on Europe as the pound and Euro are high and even more in Russia. The may not be buying common stuff, but the high grade item are selling. The major markets are in the countries that fought the Nazis. USA, Canada, UK & Commonwealth, Russia, plus the European countries that were occupied.

And if you think things are not selling at regional/nation shows, try finding:

- Parachutist items: Helmets, uniforms, patches, wings. German/US/UK/etc

- USMC WWII items

- Garands and Carbines in good shape

- Top grade Nazi daggers, Allied fighting knives

- German decorations EK2 and higher

- Allach

- etc

Dave

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Sorry to contredict but nothing is really all that rare.
I've counted 25 Paratrooper helmets on 2 major dealer websites alone in the last 2 minutes, how many do we need ?

Though the Euro, British Pounds and Canadian currency are doing extremelly well in comparaison to the US dollars, the market is still very soft in Europe.
The UK is having its biggest economic recession in more than 25 years and the rest of Europe, except for Germany, is in very bad shape.
Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland and Iceland and basically in bankruptcy.
No, I doubt that many high end stuff are flying eastwards, many are still being offered on most dealer web sites and been sitting there for ages.
What is a high end dagger anyway ? Is it one that you can count on one hand ? If so, does that represent the health of the hobby if one single SS Honor get sold in Russia ?
I don't think that selling an Army Damascus or an SA Honor dagger means that the market is DOING WELL.

All this is simply called PROPAGANDA and guess who are the investigators, yop, you guessed it right. grin

patrice #246641 06/13/2011 04:25 AM
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You forgot to add the U.S.A. in the bankrupty list.
Brian

Brian Ray #246643 06/13/2011 05:07 AM
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Do we have any members in Portugal or Greece or any of the EU countries facing a tough time that want to chime in and give us a report on how things are on the ground ( collector wise) there?

When I do set up at shows, I get lots of requests for Luftwaffe items from the Eastern Bloc buyers.

Some of the dealers speculate that they put together fake 'convolutes' out of items from disparate sources to try and sell as major groupings around a high end or named item..

Doug Kenwright #246645 06/13/2011 05:49 AM
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G
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G
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I have a lot of friends in Poland, Ukraine, Russia,,compared to 10 years ago about half are still collecting.
Many that still are in the hobby have given up 3rd reich items and they're going after their own countries pieces to get back in their homeland...

Last edited by Gaspare; 06/13/2011 05:50 AM.
Gaspare #246649 06/13/2011 08:49 AM
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Speaking as someone who regularly attends local shows-and they are still plentiful in UK-interest is still very high, tho sales perhaps not what they were a year ago. Low end dealers for whom this is still a 'fun' pastime not a career are still turning over sufficient amounts to continue to pay for tables at these events, and are not afraid to buy in new stock. Whilst this may all be bad news for the the big boys, the little guys are are still out there giving us what we want

paul


FUR EHR' UND PFLICHT BIS HERZ UND KLINGE BRICHT
Doug Kenwright #246664 06/13/2011 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Doug Kenwright
Just think of all the amazing items that reside in former Eastern Bloc countries (and Russia) that we have never seen!

Most of Russian found items are in a bad shape. Most were desstroyed during or after the war, and most were illegal to own untill recently. So the best items were brought from US and Cananda.

Oleg1 #246669 06/13/2011 06:27 PM
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Yes and No Oleg..I agree that there are lots of worn and damaged items, but some of the collections that I have seen from friends in former Eastern Bloc countries would blow your mind, none of it being sourced from the west!

Doug Kenwright #246700 06/13/2011 11:35 PM
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Patrice,

What is wrong with dealers ?

Dave

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