UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum E-Pack Heer with 2nd Crossguard?

Opinions welcomed on this army dagger.

It looks like an E-Pack 2nd crossguard based on Degens wonderful references (thank you once again).

This is quoted as being undocumented. The blade is unmarked and does not have a slant grip as sometimes encountered.

Looks like a nice piece, can we see the whole dagger?.

You might also check if the scabbard is a Pack ( twin dome headed side screws? )

Rhys,
I have an unmarked army dagger with this type of PACK crossguard in my collection.
Mine has plated blade. What about yours? Can you show us more photos?
Here is mine.

Janos

Hi Janos,
The single side screw interests me. I thought only WKC used that?
Regards, Dan

Thanks for the replies. More pictures attached.

It does not have the Pack scabbard (twin dome heads)

Janos, you have a super example there with a nice slant grip.
The overall finish on yours also has a lovely matching silvered patina.

Not sure about the plating at the moment.

Pommel looks like a type C? (Herder, Klass, Voos)

Looks like some bubbling to the plating on the back of the crossguard. Do you know if the crossguard is brass metal based?

Thinking of buying this one at the moment, what do you think?

dr,
you have good eyes for details.
But the naked truth is: one scabbard screw is missing... See 1st photo.

Rhys,
IMO the bubbling to the plating on the back of the crossguard is no problem, mine has the same features.
This type of crossguard is quite rare and I have not enough knowledge to judge the configuration you show.
I have two daggers with this type crossguard: an unmarked and a PACK (2nd photo).
Both has slant grip. The unmarked one has a plated blade the PACK has a polished blade.
Scabbards have dome head screws.

It would be more logical to see this xguard with a slant grip but who knows???

Perhaps other members could help.

Janos

Janos, Do both of yours have brass based fittings??? Kevin.

In my humble opinion, this crossguard was a transitional pattern used only for a short time, probably around 1936, based on the early brass based fittings and in most cases evidence of hand chasting still being used.
It will therefore be found with both slanted and non-slant grips and as far as I am aware the blades are always early tapered.
Spitzer was another maker who utilised this crossguard for a short time amongst others but most will be marked E-Pack. I have the spitting image of Janos's second dagger with the orange grip, right down to the same characteristics of the unique hand enhancing.

Janos, you are fortunate to have 2 examples of this rarer configuration.
It is also nice that they both have slant grips.
Thanks for the information especially the note on the bubbling.
The fact that yours both have slant grips and the dome heads on the scabbard would seem to be the "right" configuration for the PACK models.

Degens, thanks for your input as this puts a new angle on the validity of this setup.

The scabbard on my example has no screws - any comments on this?

Also would the crossguard be brass based? My concern are the brown patches on the crossguard (see above the eagle's left shoulder). Would this be corrosion, dirt, brass coming through the silver..?