UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Medals & Badges of the Third Reich Forum Need Info on this GPB number

does anyone have any info on this GPB number?.,,thanks,,Robert

militarymania,

Is it possible to give a more close up photo of the reverse?

Thanks,

John

hi John,,,will post pics of reverse later,,thanks,,Robert

That's some crazy font used on the numbers and one I have never seen before. Better photos are needed but the MM looks good so far.

more pics

more pics 1

more pics 2

The badge is original but the engraving style is a new one on me. Let's see what John has to say.

this badge with the engraving came directly from the vets own hands,,he kept some 3-d albums but sold me everything else...

As stated earlier the badge is good IMO. My bet is the engraving was done by a Jeweler and is period. I have just never seen that style before. I'm interest in John's analysis of the engraving. Erich

Thats a new one on me as well, lets christen it the 'Aztec' style font

Or Runic style!

i vote "runic" style...

First one I've seen too. It is rotograved, but not as expertly as factory issues. Seems to be freehand instead of using a template.

I see some buffing / grinding to the reverse. I assume it's to smooth over the engraving and not to remove another number, which is difficult to impossible.

The number's not in my database

Well......

As stated, the badge is an original and as is the runic style engraving which is hand engraved by a competent jeweler and not �roto-engraved� Also make note on both badges that the lower portion of the badge has had the original numerals scrubbed or filed off prior to the hand engraving of the new numerals. It has been said that the original numerals were impressed too deeply to be able to have them filled off and new numerals engraved but I have period letters addressed to the jewelers and manufacturers requesting existing numbers to be removed and new numerals to be engraved on an existing badge. This information coupled together with these living proof badges is absolute proof that they in fact were able to and did accomplish this.

Switching gears to the 30mm badges, the same with the badges having the 'roto-engraving' resultant with the swirl markings within the depths of the new numerals. These roto-engraved badges have also had their original numerals filled off as evidenced by the file marks on the lower portion of the badge and the new numerals applied with some type of a �roto-engraving� tool.

Interesting and absent of any doubt that the badge was a direct veteran purchase as evidenced with my below badge which was also a direct veteran purchase and has like runic engraved numerals. With a high degree of assumption, we can surmise that both badges were engraved by the same jeweler. But, why his stylish 'runic' style of engraving? Personally, I had always wondered if my badge was engraved in this style for a zealous SS person liking runes but no leads or confirmation have come to light.

Respectfully,

John

Thanks John for the information on engraved badges. I always thought that the lines on the roto- engraved badges were sanding marks to remove any sharp edges after the engraving of blank badges. I like badges that are unique and both badges pictured are that.

Interesting to see a second one.

We're used to seeing rotograved numbers in the usual rounded number format, but rotograving was just an engraving tool like a drill bit. John, since you have access to one of these badges I assume you can't see any "whirls" inside the engraved numbers, so you can tell us this isn't "rotograved" but engraved with some other tool. The rounded starts and stops in the photo made me think it was rotograved.

I'd love to see an edge-on view to see how much it was ground down. Given the depth of the impressed numbers on these badges, there should be quite a difference in thickness on that edge if it was renumbered.

I'm curious - letters requesting re-numbering - who do they come from? I would assume that an ordinary citizen couldn't request a GPB to be renumbered without permission of the GPB office. F.X. Schwarz would have had something to say about that. Also - where would someone get a numbered GPB belonging to someone else to renumber it?

i concur with John that both of these badges were done by the same person,,

I can imagine some scenarios to obtain a GPB for renumbering may include:

- Obtaining the GPB of someone kicked out of the party.

- Some one who left the party after meeting the original prerequisites for obtaining a GPB, returning, and not being able to get the old number back.

- The original number was impressed incorrectly (not likely, but..)

An earlier number was granted as a favour to someone else, from 'on high', and subsequent changes had to be made down the line..

I would expect that there are more of these out there.