UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Himmler Presentation dagger question

Hello to all of you. I am new to the forum and have been bitten by the bug. I know the prize of most collectors out there is the Himmler Presentation dagger. I am new to dagger collecting and would like to know from some of the experts when the last one of these came up for sale as well as what one would go for on the high and low end. Any tips about collecting would be greatly appreciated by any and all of you!

Regards

Jeff

A web search turned up 5 currently for sale from reliable dealers. Prices vary

These daqgers are somewhat scarce, but not as rare as once thought. All were made by "Eickhorn" in at least two configurations. There are minor differences, but noticeable. The location of the trademark is of the utmost importance. There are many fakes of these, from the crudest, laughable ones to high-quality copies and conversions of authentic daggers. Alloriginals will have nickel-silver grip and scabbard fittings and "anodized" (blued)scabbards. It is possible that a scabbard has been painted during the period or afterward. The cross guards are almost, if not always, marked internally "AR" or "HE." The lower guard usually, but not always, will have a number, 0 to 9, stamped underneath. Prices can range considerably, based on condition. It is all but impossible to set firm prices without examining a particular example. However, you could probably expect to pay $1500 to $2000 for a very poor example to about $15,000 and more for a very nice one. Again, it all depends on condition and what a seller is willing to take. Condition problems include cracked, chipped or very badly damaged grips, missing grip insignia; dented, creased scabbards and fittings, poor finish on scabbard, or missing parts; damage to the blade, such as a broken tip or "retipping, corrosion, pitting, over-cleaned, poor detail to the motto and inscription, etc. These daggers are not easily found, as a rule, and usually wind up in the hands of dealers for resale. You might try Googling "Himmler dagger" and checking dealer sites. Once in a while, they show up on auctions. You must use caution in buying one, in view of the fakes. Either buy from a reputable dealer or collector or have the dagger okayed by a trusted and knowledgeable individual prior to buying. I hope this has been of help. Welcome to the hobby and successful collecting.

killroy, make SURE you get one from a reputable dealer...GREAT advise!

I bought one years and years ago that was exactly like the one pictured in James Atwood's book but found out that it was bogus. The dealer took it back but I really thought I had the real deal which it was in fact NOT!

At the time I got mine, the only reference I knew of was Atwood. I have collected for many years, since 1964 to be exact!

Be careful and good luck out there!

Thank you all for your help. While I am new to this forum I have been on another forum for a little while. It looks like (as I rip-off a famous quote) uncommon honor (welcome help) is a common on these forums! I hope to have pics soon of this dagger and once I figure the ins and outs of this forum I will post them. It may be tomorrow it may be a month from now but stay tuned!

Regards

Jeff

You picked a good place Jaff, lots of knowledgeable guys here.
Welcome!

I was able to find one on the "ruptured duck" site but where were the others?

World Daggers and Ulric of England websites.

I would not start out collecting daggers with a Himmler dagger.If you have to have other people tell you what is right and not right your not ready.If you do buy one prepare to own it for a long time.How many of todays collectors have 15-20k too buy a Himmler dagger at a military show.Lastly many times it takes years too establish an aquired taste on what you like mint,salty,cleaned,never cleaned,all original,period,RESTORED! ect. You need to start out with cheaper daggers so you can learn how it feels to get screwed on several hundred $ instead of several thousand. Happens to the best of us,comes with the territory.Good Luck.

I believe Bill Shea has one on his "Ruptured Duck" site.

JR recently posted an excellent original example of a Himmler presentation dagger on this Forum including some high quality photographs.

See, "Stopping by..." posted by JR on 14th November 2010.

Well worth a look.

Barry Brown

Hi All:

Perhaps this is a good time to ask. Does anyone know of a Himmler Honor Dagger with a SS membership number or one that can be documented to a specific recipient?

Thanks,

Ross Kelbaugh
www.ssdaggers.com
www.HistoricGraphics.com

zorro sure has that right! Better a few hundred than the cleaners!

Ross, I've never seen or heard of one with a serial number. Given the nature of them, stamping numbers on them would have been frowned upon, I'm sure. However, that doesn't mean it could not have been done. I'm not positive, but think I may have seen one or two over the years said to have come from the family of the original owner or as part of an original owner's estate. I could be mistaken on that.

Can I ask for clarification on definitions here. What is the difference between a Himmler presentation dagger and Himmler Honor Dagger or are they the same thing?

Same things James. to lend a little order and clarity, we tend to refer to the Himmler's and Rohms as "Himmler inscription" and "Rohm inscription" and reserve the term "honor dagger" for the Eickhorn-made Damascus-bladed special awards to SA and SS leaders.

DAve

Yes, the "Himmler" and "Rohm" daggers are standard M-33's, with the exception of the inscriptions. The honor dagger usually has a damascus blade, but there are examples with polished blades. Both have the SS motto and the damascus examples have oak leaves at either end of the motto. They and the motto are gold-plated, as is the "Eickhorn" trademark. The scabbards are covered in black leather and there are two types of distinctive scabbard fittings found on them. Their cross guards are cast and usually hand-embellished. They are designed with oak leaves and acorns. The fake displayed here will give you a general idea as to what an SS honor dagger looks like, but it woefully lacks in proper detail, quality and other factors.

Thanks Gentlemen that is excellent. One further question. Am I correct is stating that only Eickhorn made the Himmler inscription daggers? Again I think I am right is stating that a number of makers did the Rohm inscriptions.

ONLY Eickhorn made the SS Rohm and Himmler inscription daggers.
Multiple manufacturers made the SA Rohm daggers.
Jim

Jim,

I believe there were several makers of SS Rohm daggers, most of the larger early makers produced them... Himmler, only Eickhorn.

Red

Right. Only "Eickhorn" made "Himmler's." Many makers made "Rohm's."

I somehow managed to get this backwards when typing it. Rohms were made by multiple manufacturers and that is correct. Eickhorn was the sole manufacturer of Himmlers.
Jim

SS Rohm makers list,i read somwhere hope you dont mind me listing them, please remove if you think not suitable for thread cheer's Ronnie

carl Eickhorn.
Boker.
Robert Klass.
RA Herder.
Gottlieb Hammesfahr.
Wilhelm Kober

Right first time, 85 !

You must have read Tom Wittmann's SS book.

Dave

probably right Dave i did cheat though i have them written down on a piece of paper in my den for quick reference
cheers Ronnie