UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons European Edged Weapons Russian Navy Dagger ??? HELP

I've had this dagger for quite a few years now and I've never been able to figure out what it is. Hopefully someone on this forum will be able to ID it. The blade is not maker marked nor are there any proof marks on it. The fittings are all solid brass and the scabbard is made from a dark brown bakelite type composite material. This came from a WW2 merchant marines estate. Any idea to what it is would be greatly appreciated.
MAZZ

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I've no idea what the grip material is, it is yellowed and has some cracking,has a grain to it but doesn't look to be ivory and has a cold feeling to it, could it be stone? I haven't taken the dagger apart as i can't get the star part off on the pomell and I don't want to break it.
MAZZ

Hi Mazz,

Looks to be a Hungarian model 1952 Air Force Dagger.

Jim

Shouldn't there be a number on the blade on Hungarian daggers?

I think this is a "self-made" copy of soviet dagger. there were many copies made in russia, they all made similar to the soviet dagger but come in different shapes and styles this.

I think this is some type of Russian WW2 or earlier dagger. History behind it was it was swapped by the WW2 US merchant mariner with a Russian sailor during the war. Doesn't look like a local workshop produced item, seems to be very professionally made. Hopefully someone can positively ID this piece.
MAZZ

Hi Mazz,

Compare it to this

The scabbard rings are mssing and it does not taper as much as yours but the style of the grip, crossguard, scabbardd fittings are all similar. The grip is Ivory.

Blade is not polished up.

If this is similar enough, I believe this is a WWII Naval dagger which was part of the evolution from the Tzarist daggers to the marked Soviet ones.

But, the members here disagree.

You getting one from the estate of a merchant marine puts a slightly different light on it.

Just theory.

Jim,
That is very close to what I have, I think you've nailed it! Thanks for all your help.
Regards,
MAZZ

Jim,

What is the construction of the scabbard on your dagger. Is it the same as on soviet - two wooden plates covered with leather?

Did you notice that the shape of the lower scabbard fittings are different on two daggers here?

I am not certain of the materials of the scabbard other than the brass fittings.

The finish appears similar to the paint you find on Russian Eggs. Not the new eggs, but the ones we bought 20 years ago. There is a slight magnetic attraction but not enough for me to believe there is metal under the finish. It does sound like ther could be metal runners and it has a nice fit. I am sure there is wood in there also.

What are your thoughts.

After re reading Mazz's description of the scabbard cover I think it is the same.

Some Russian must have been hard at work in his shack making these with slight veriations but some high class materials.