UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum No maker marked km dagger

i bought this km dagger today
wkc???
it has no makers mark does anyone have an idea why ?

A companies "registered trademark" was theirs to use or not.

but why stamp most daggers and not others?
made for a retail store??

Althought these IMO are not common; I have an unmarked KM in my collection. The reason they are not marked is anyones guess as I've never received a satisfactory explanation.
Jim

A popular theory is that most of the unmarked KM daggers were depot pieces, available to visiting or in transit navy officers. Some unmarked daggers have the eagle M stamp on the blade/scabbard, and some have a stamped letter/number code that can be identified to a specific base.

Does this dagger have an etched blade?
The much more rarer (versus etched blades) plain blade daggers "normally" do also come without mm.
Concerning mms in general: I do not know for navies as interestingly there seems to be a relation with the non etched blades. But often some firms held a kind of syndicate and no other maker was allowed to produce such kind of dagger 8eg. think of RLBs). sometimes other firms managed to get the allowance to produce such daggers but only without mm.
I think to remember that somewhere I have read 8please correct me if i am wrong) a correspondance between M�ller and Himmler. M�ller wanted to produce SS degens but KREBS was against it. Finally Himmler did allow M�ller to manufacture SS degens but without mm.
Regards,

its a plain blade
from the fittings i am sure its a wkc

This is exactly what I have thought (and why I have asked). All navies with plain blade witout mm I have seen have had typical WKC parts. Rarely some plain bladed navies are marked, all I have seen were with the WKC mark.
For me it is totally unknown and unexplainable why some of this plain bladed navies are with and most are without mm.
Regards,

Like Jim stated, "it's anyones guess". But it's my believe that unmarked daggers for the most part and when quite obvious of course came from small cottage firm(s) with no registered MM.

There was no requirement for these businesses to adopt a MM, but for the major players good business sense dictated otherwise.

Just for a quick plain blade comparison the lower is marked WKC the upper is unmarked.

Good quality no maker dress blades from larger makers were not uncommon with Imperial era items. And in the 19th century Solingen makers made a lot of what were called �trade quality� blades.

Generally speaking, some of it might have depended on what the retailer was focusing on. For shops that sold primarily uniforms, with dress blades as accessories with unmarked blades (including TR era swords). A retailer could compete with a neighboring business that sold a particular �name� line from a maker and not be in competition. And the retailer could also switch to whomever had the best price at the time. With no complaints that �I bought a XXX and you gave me a .......� Just some thoughts from my own perspective.

FP

FP, thank you very much for your statement, this is a very interesting and locical point of view/experience for me which I have not had before. Seems to me to be another legit explanation.
Regards,

Hey FP,

It makes since and agree, but just as a side note for information... I do know that trade was somewhat difficult and restrictive under the old guilds until the customs union came along. And after Germany's unification, " the German Empire period", the old traditional guild way of doing business had to go. Reason being is that most of the laws passed during this period were born out of Germany's "unification", industrial/ economic and social reforms and politics of the day to facilitate one economy under one nation. Unrestricted commerce and economic reforms was needed to free up domestic and foreign trade barriers from the different states and their boundaries which had previously been controlled by these traditional guilds...The trade mark reform which gave legal protection for "registered trade marks" was one of them as well as the "silver and gold marks" reform which was shown and briefly discussed sometime back .

With that said, I believe economics the driving force, depending on the time line of the war of course. I also believe "Free trade" in general during this period for various reasons already known as well as competition played a role. As we know smaller companies ordered parts from the major players and more than likely ordered unmarked blades from them as well (trade blades?) or I would think procured some of these mass produced blades directly from the blade making factories. Competition by way of advertising their names and wares which then required them to legally protect that name was important. And as is the case even today, with no name brand stuff being purchased cheaper due to the simple fact your not buying the name. Everyone in the business wanted a piece of the pie so I believe these small family orientated cottage maker(s) which didn't have a need for a registered TM could assemble much cheaper than the larger companies and retailers would certainly have taken full advantage of this market, but regardless if the item was or wasn't maker marked, retailers were still held liable for the products they sold.

I'm not sure I completely understand the concept of "trade blades" v " free trade" during this period. Maybe no difference? Sounds interesting and would like to learn more when you get some time. Thanks FP.

Mikee,

The Industrial Revolution in the 19th century substantially changed the way things were made and ultimately distributed. And what I was referring to as �trade quality� blades were not those made by and trademarked from a specific maker. To be used by that maker with items that it was selling as coming from them. With sometimes, but not always, said items being of a higher quality or finish.

But instead parts and/or completed items that were supplied to smaller makers to be completed or trademarked by them. To distributors or larger retailers who might want their own �brand name�. Or to what were primarily uniform shops that were looking to completely outfit a customer, and wanted to have some flexibility when they did so by omitting the trademark. Or even an organization like the SS, with the unmarked M1936 daggers.

Best Regards, FP