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JohnZ Offline OP
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Just landed chez JohnZ is this beautiful single etched bayonet from the elite school at Starnberg.

Most of the Ehre, etc etches from this school are made by Eickhorn, but this is on a Henckels blade.

Obverse.JPG (40.3 KB, 352 downloads)
Reverse.JPG (40.34 KB, 352 downloads)
Obverse Hilt.JPG (38.93 KB, 353 downloads)
Reverse Hilt.JPG (39.31 KB, 351 downloads)
TM.JPG (79.78 KB, 353 downloads)
Etch.JPG (39.86 KB, 352 downloads)
Etch Front.JPG (39.49 KB, 351 downloads)
Etch Rear.JPG (41.21 KB, 351 downloads)

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Just to compare, here is my Eickhorn version of the same school etch.

BTW, I have seen this etch on a 42 over shoulder marked blade as well.

John

Eickhorn Etch Honor, etc 004.jpg (39.03 KB, 349 downloads)
Eickhorn Etch Honor, etc 003.jpg (38.92 KB, 352 downloads)
Eickhorn Etch Honor, etc 001.jpg (39.46 KB, 350 downloads)
Eickhorn Etch Honor, etc 002.jpg (39.62 KB, 348 downloads)

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John,

Very nice pair. Notice the Henckels etch seems higher toward the backstrap of the blade as opposed to the Eick. The Eick also seems burnished, is the Henckels? I know Wayne T. sold a pair of Henckels pieces a few years ago which were the first ones I had ever seen. I know where one of them went, this might be the other one smile


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B:

Here are comparisons side by side. The top one is the Eick (maybe you could tell by the pics that include the crossguard wink

Yes, the Eick etch is closer to the top blade edge than the Henckels. Since I only have this one Eick, I cannot say with certainty that all Eicks are like this one.

I did not see the ones that Wayne T had for sale, but a GDC member did post 3 of these for sale back before 2008, including the over shoulder marked one. I snoozed on those and had to buy these (probably at much higher prices).

John

MVC-525S.JPG (39.41 KB, 334 downloads)
MVC-526S.JPG (40.96 KB, 334 downloads)
MVC-528S.JPG (39.44 KB, 334 downloads)

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John,

You're a lovely madman, please don't stop! This is "soul-food!"

Many thanks old man! tasty!

Bill

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Have two of them by EICKHORN, one with the common 35-41 trademark and one with the early double oval.
Very nice bayonets shown here. I personally appreciate these school bayonets.
Recently I have seen a faked one. Naturally offered as "Feldhernnhalle-bayonet".
Regards,

1 red.jpg (34.86 KB, 320 downloads)

wotan, gd.c-b#105

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JohnZ Offline OP
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Wotan:

Beauty! Which mark is that one?

Imagine all three Eick marks together, the double oval, the 35-41 seated squirrel and the 42 over shoulder....

John


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This is the 35-41 TM but the early one has an identical E.,K.,F. etching.
Yes, that would be great owning the tree TMs but who is selling me the "over the shoulder looking squirrel" ????? cool
For me it is interesting that EICKHORN consequently manufactured these bayonets through the whole period.
FYI the cufftitle is easily a hundred times rarer than the bayonet. There also does exist another ct (obviously either a later one or for teacher) from which only one is known in existance.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Here's mine, it's mint but sad to say it isn't a double oval, over the shoulder or Henckels sick

Eick.JPG (84.78 KB, 289 downloads)

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See? A nice mark but nothing REALLY sexy.

Eick2.JPG (81.99 KB, 289 downloads)

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John,
Wonderful bayonets! I was thinking the same thing Billy was on where this came from. As mentioned, Wayne had two of these for sale some time ago. I was glad you were able to bring to our attention. The two other types of Eickhorns TMs with the same etch I had no idea there was a double oval and over the shoulder. We learn something new every day.

This is my only example, far from mint but I was happy to add it to my collection. This one's an Eick.

Regards,
Steve

h s f.JPG (73.47 KB, 338 downloads)

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It looks like that makes four from Henckels then smile. If Johns is not one of the previous two sold by Mr Tetchet.

Virtually mint and with full burnish. Had this one about a year now, they are very tough to get hold of.
It also came with the correct original brown frog and notice the slightly higher positioned etch than on the Eick examples as mentioned before. smile






Reichs2.jpg (121.46 KB, 331 downloads)
Reichs3.jpg (106.31 KB, 331 downloads)
Reichs1.jpg (122.62 KB, 330 downloads)
Last edited by Degens; 10/25/2010 02:23 AM.
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I have recently acquired one Henckels without knowing what it was. I do not collect dress bayonets, but the etching looked intriguing. This site was the only info I could find online.

I am not sure if anyone is keeping the count of them, but this one probably does not come from a collection. I can also post photos if anyone is still interested. This post seems a bit old.

Best,
D.

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JohnZ Offline OP
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Please post pics.

John


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droin,
first let me welcome you to the forum!
This thread might look old wink but is still active!
As JohnZ already stated, -please post pics-!
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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At one of the last shows Jim Atwood attended, he had boxes of the Eickhorn files for sale. I randomly leafed through the stacks of invoices from 1942 and found one to the Feldefing Schule for these bayonets. The order was for 500 of the M98 Short Bayonet with Motto: Ehre, Kraft, Freihiet. This was proof positive that this was the purpose for the bayonet as far as I am concerned. The Eickhorn files were sold at that show, I believe to a Texan, who was going to work on them for a book. Tom Johnson and I had felt that the amount of translation and time required for this project who make it impossible to manage in our opinions. I have never seen or heard of them since the show.


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Hello Ron,
I do remember absolutely for sure that I somewhere (perhaps here at GDC in the early days???), years ago, I have seen this certain, detailed invoice. As you already have written, the School Name, the motto, the number of bayonets and some more Information was written down in this certain invoice. But how hard I try, I cannot remember where. Perhaps it was even elswhere in a book, I donīt know.
The only EICKHORN tomes ("Musterbuecher") I know had been offered at relicsofthereich in 2004 for 15000$. Lateron in 2006 there was a note that they were not for sale any more ("Iīve decided to keep them myself").
I do not know if the certain invoice concerning the Feldafing bayonets were in these files ore came from them but these EICKHORN tomes for sure are one of the most interesting, comtemporary files I have ever known from. In these files are detailed describtions of nearly unknown edged weapons (eg the SA saber...), how many of them wehre producet at which time, to whom they where delivered and much more informations. Naturally there are also photographs and drawings in these tomes. For these who could read them an immeasurable source of Information.
Unfortunately these tomes were never (up to now) professionally analyzed. I am sure, if this would be done, a lot of roumors about edged weapons of IIIR and phantasy pieces would be stopped.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Hello again,

Here are some photos of the bayonet. Excuse the quality, but the light is not very good now, and my photography skills are very minimal.

The rust on the handle is very thin, so someone knowledgeable can clean it off nicely. It came in correct scabbard and with a regular k98 bayonet frog, dated 1940. It could be a veteran bring back.

Until yesterday I knew nothing about it, so thank you all for this post, and welcoming me here, John.

Regards,
D.

IMG_0498.JPG (117.92 KB, 192 downloads)
IMG_0497.JPG (94.4 KB, 191 downloads)
IMG_0501.JPG (92.79 KB, 193 downloads)
Last edited by droin; 06/16/2013 12:44 AM.
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droin, what I can see from the pics you have a nice HENCKELS Feldafing bayonet. HENCKELS are more rare than the EICKHORN Counterpart (only the EICKHORN oval mm may be more rare, there is only one up to now grin).
Personally I would not remove the rust, itīs "patination" from about 60+ years and if removed the grip still will missing itīs nickle plating. So why changing the appearance? Just a small amount of weaponīs oil to prevent from further (deeper) corroding and you have an artifact of history.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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I am glad its better not to do anything to clean it up. I would not know how to anyway.
I found one Eickhorn for sale on another website and was amazed at the price. Am I allowed to ask for value estimates on this site?

Cheers,
D.

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Nice I have only seen one informative timothy

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JohnZ Offline OP
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droin:

I paid way more for my Eickhorn version than for the Henckels one.

In any case, I think that nice version would go for $1,600 or so and condition would take this up or down by up to 30%, JMO.

John


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That's probably the one on my site.


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Thank you gentlemen! Yes, that is the one.

So... if I asked for $2k or best offer, will people laugh at me?

Droin

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droin:

Nope, I think that you are in the right price range.

Look at Ron's web site... nice stuff there at pretty decent pricing.

http://www.warrelic.com/

John


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The problem with these is that most collectors don't know what they are or don't see any at shows.


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Originally Posted By: Degens
It looks like that makes four from Henckels then smile. If Johns is not one of the previous two sold by Mr Tetchet.

Virtually mint and with full burnish. Had this one about a year now, they are very tough to get hold of.
It also came with the correct original brown frog and notice the slightly higher positioned etch than on the Eick examples as mentioned before. smile



Superb mint Henckels blade you have there! The Eickhorn I have came with a brown frog.
Is there any reliable period input that might establishe the wear of a troddel with these Feldafing student sidearms? My guess is that they were worn without.

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[/quote]
Superb mint Henckels blade you have there! The Eickhorn I have came with a brown frog.
Is there any reliable period input that might establishe the wear of a troddel with these Feldafing student sidearms? My guess is that they were worn without. [/quote]

The only written description from a former wearer of such a bayonet does I am aware of describes details of his uniform and the bayonet exactly but does NOT mention any troddel or portepee. Personally I do not think there was a such a thing worn with these certain bayonets.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Thank you, Wotan.

Regards

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Since this thread came back up and questions of color of frog and possibly of or no portepee/troddel, what color of felt are found in the slot? Of some of the ones you guys have.

Mine was found without scabbard but still had the red felt in lug slot.
Also dose anyone remember a thread awhile back where one was posted and looked to be added post war, I don't seem to able to find it. If someone can find the link post up or PM me the link, thanks,
A little better better pic of the etch of mine. The blades not mint as some of the others posted but still has some of the burnish left.

image.jpg (95.69 KB, 73 downloads)
Last edited by Steven C; 11/15/2014 05:47 PM.

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Steven:

My Henckels has no plug, I guess lost to time.

The Eickhorn, like yours, has a red felt plug.

John


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Just checked.......red in my Henckels. They should all be red shouldn't they?.

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My Eickhorn has a red plug.

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Here, where these bajonets had been produced and had been worn 99,9999% of all bayonets do have red plugs (when they have a plug at all) so I think red is the general color and each other color is a real wonder. Therefore I think red would also be the general color for these Ehre, Kraft, Freiheit bayonets.
Regards,


wotan, gd.c-b#105

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Yes, red felt is the default color according to the Eickhorn catalog.


"You can't please everyone, so you've got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson
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At a show several years back, I saw an Eickhorn etched bayonet with a naval pattern (yes, Navy!) with a blue felt plug.

And, I had no doubts at all that this was correct and proper, both the etch and the plug.

John


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John,

You saw such a beast & didn't go home with it? Hard to believe smile

I've seen the occasional blue felt plug which looked correct but had always been told it had a connection with the Diplomatic Corps. Anecdotally, a few of the blue plugs were in KS98 bayonets by Aesculap which themselves are not that common.


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Billy:

Believe me, I tried really hard!

And, at every show, when I see the owner, I ask about it. I think that I am becoming a pest.

John


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John,

Yes, I can see that happening smile That said, perseverance often wins out. Either that or you'll come across another. I do hope you're able to add it to that stellar collection of yours.


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