UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Miscellaneous Dagger Forum Fire Official's Dagger Thread

WK&C maker mark & a little of the etch.

Even the pommel is done with exquisite detail. This is the pommel obverse.

A better shot of the reverse pommel detailing.

A shot of the wonderfully detailed scabbard frog lug.

And finally, a shot of the relatively plain scabbard drag.

I haven't to this point posted a standard WKC model Fire Official's dagger, until now. I was waiting to pick up a nice example, possibly with a nice engraved scabbard dedication. Every once in a while one pops up that's nicely conditioned but it's usually priced in the stars so I waited. And I'm glad I did. This one popped up maybe 4 years ago & I knew I had to have it. I hope by looking at it that you will see why.

Right off the bat, this piece has what looks like a period knot wrapped around the crossguard. Now Imperial/Weimar period Feuerwehr knots are fairly scarce but they are out there. Usually if you see one on a dagger, it's more than likely a Feuerwehr sword knot. You know the type, large, wide bulb with a wide & flat strap.

But this one was different. First of all, the strap is like a dagger strap, thin & round. Secondly, there are red flecks in the strap & stem. Thirdly, the cat's anus has a carmine dot. Seldom does an accouterment really stoke me but this one did. I had never before (or since) seen such a knot. It was just snugly enough wrapped to make me feel it was there the whole time. And boy is it toned, remember this knot was originally silver bullion.

OK so that's the knot, but what about the dagger? Looks like a garden variety, albeit minty, WKC example. Right?

OK so this looks like a standard WKC dagger, flaming pommel, spear point quillion arms, floral crossguard center, scalloped scabbard fittings. So what gives? BTW, the hangers were a subsequent addition. I just thought they looked kinda nice in the pics.

Here's a shot of the WKC knight which I believe was used from the Imperial period through the Weimar period. The blade etch is plainly visible & it's also a good shot to view the knot strap.

A shot of the reverse blade etch showing Feuerwehr motifs. But besides the condition & fancy knot, what's so special?

This, a presentation from the Pionier Abteilung of the G�then Volunteer Fire Department. The only bummer is there's no name or date although I suppose it's researchable to some extent. This is one of my favorite daggers.

A better shot of the knot bulb which, interestingly enough, is tough to shoot while still attached to the dagger. And I'm not about to take it off

Billy that's a great fire official's dagger.One day I might find one thank's for showing it paul.

Paul,

Thanks for your kind words. On TJ's site I recently missed a very nice presented Eickhorn model #527. It wasn't in the update section & by the time I saw it, it was gone. Sometimes it's just a case of being in the right place at the right time. Of course with the money in hand too

Billy G. looks to me you have your fair share of being in the right place at the right time .
what do you do ?? I'm guessing you have some rope with a big magnet on the end , just toss it out the window, wait a while ,pull it pack in and caught another third reich item.
very nice collection billy !! please keep sharing the photos.
jeff h.
p.s. with out this forum & and all of you guys (& gals),I would not see so much of this stuff. Az. has a lot less to offer /see at the shows ect.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the kind words. One reason I've been able to acquire such pieces is the relative lack of knowledge & of course, the relative lack of interest in them. Probably more a lack of interest. Look at them all, not a swaz in the bunch. Most are Imperial or Weimar which always garners less interest than a 3R era piece, swazs notwithstanding. I've been lucky, some friends know I like these pieces & have emailed me when one has popped up. Others were for sale on Eban, others still from dealers although you will always pay through the nose with a dealer.

Another good thing about Fire Official's daggers, there really isn't the reproduction issue with them. True Eickhorn made them legitimately until the late 1960s or thereabouts but vetting a post 1945 piece from a pre 1945 piece isn't that difficult. And of course it's about being in the right place at the right time. I've been skunked many times being a day late looking into something or jst bidding too low on Eban.

It's also knowing what to buy & what not to. I also passed up a super beautiful ivory presented fire axe that was offered to me at a wholesale price by a very reputable dealer. I just didn't want it at the time. Boy am I kicking myself on that one to this day!

Billy:

Beautiful daggers.

You sure know how to pick them.

I am still looking for a nice TR Eickhorn fire dagger.

John

Hey John,

Which mark are you looking for? I'll keep my eyes open.

Billy:

I am looking for the 35-41 squirrel holding sword and the 42 over shoulder marks.


And, if you run across a nice Eick etched fire bayo (that is a real one..)

John

J,

Wow, is that all? I've seen the '35-'41 mark on a rare occasion on a Fire Official's dagger but never the over the shoulder mark. A single or double oval can be had once in a while although it's been a while since I've seen either of those too.

I've seen plenty of etched fire bayonets by Eickhorn, none that were period IMHO. The search continues,...

Finally able to contribute to this thread.
Recently obtained from TJ-with much advice from Billy! Thanks my friend

Paul,

Very nice to see you finally got that dagger from Tom, considering the cpsy of these daggers I think you found a very reasonably priced rig. The hangers are really the icing on the cake, I don't know if they're completely unique but I've never seen another. Whatever they are, they're very unusual & very much look the period, the reverse looks similar to a number of Feuerwehr sword hangers I've seen. Probably a special order item. A beautiful addition to your awesome collection, thanks for posting pics of it!

Paul:

Very, very nice.

John

Paul very nice dagger you beat me to it owell next time thank's for the great pictures Paul

Thank you very much indeed guys, and Vigs,,, sorry.....
Was lucky enough to be offered a stone mint belt and buckle at the same time-how could I refuse??

Paul

Woaaaaaaaaaa, beautiful dagger, hangers and belt buckle, that's what I call a FULL display.
Well done mate !!!!!!!

I think it will be good to refresh this discussion.
So Billy here is one more for this great thread

Ivan,

A positively stupendous addition to your Pack collection. I am jealous, of course, since this is only the 2nd Pack example of a Fire Official's dagger I've encountered in roughly 15 years of researching & collecting them.

Your dagger closely resembled an Eickhorn example with respect to its fittings & perhaps Pack bought their Fire Official fittings from Eickhorn, but the similarities are not complete. That grip is different, more straight up & down rather than bulbed in the center.

The etch is truly a thing of beauty, not similar to any other Fire Official's dagger I've seen before. I really love Pack's Feuerwehr motif including that fireman & all the filigree work. The other Pack example I handled was identical in every way to a WKC/WK&C type, including the etch. Thanks for sharing it!

Here is a more recent shot of my Fire Official's dagger niche, this is the first time I've had them all assembled together. Looked quite nice, if I do say so myself.

Moving from left to right, the 1st three examples are Alsace type daggers which all show some of the same features which are not usually seen on a standard Preu�en Fire Official's dagger, frog lugs & double fullers. From what I've seen, Alsace variants tend to be ornate on the outside & plain on the inside whereas the Preu�en daggers are often the opposite. Maker marks are Unknown "B" in a circle, WK&C & an unmarked Eickhorn.

Next are two Eickhorn examples, the scarce model 527 with its unusual pommel & crossguard (single oval squirrel) & the more commonly seen model 42 (back to back squirrels).

The final four sport some unusual traits. The plain crossguard sawback features an etched blade (rarely seen on this model), a model estimated by Tom Wittmann to be from 1860-1890, a special order example with presentation blade (with rare knot) & an unknown type with ivory grip, steel scabbard & thought to be from a Harbor or Marine Fire detachment. The marks are WKC knight's head, unmarked WK&C, WKC knight's head & unmarked WKC. I have a variety of Feuerwehr dagger knots which have yet to be added.

I love those old ornate daggers. Rare and expensive. Great display.

Billy i'm speechless
simply stunning

Thanks gents. The high resolution shots really show off the details of the grouping & this downsized pic does the daggers no justice. I'm just noticing that now. Will see what I can do to post some group shots with better detail of the daggers & the blades since I really want to share all the variations of this wonderful genre.

Here is a long fire dagger with sawback and the double oval TM.

This is the shorter version, etched blade and double oval TM

To my knowledge the only maker mark on fire axes you will find will be Horster.

Great Fire Axe. Is that a gold finish or the lighting?

Gold finish.

That's a very nice bunch of Feuerwehr stuff John. I've seen them previously but never get tired of looking at beautiful specimens. I remember the gilt Horster axe too, not common to see a maker's mark on an axe. I think yours & one other, also a Horster, were the only ones I've observed.

This is my Gold Horster Axe.Did they make a Silver modle Paul

Paul,

Beautiful Feuerwehr axe. Did it come from Witty?

I suspect they came in both gold & silver, similar to the Fire Official's dagger. I've only seen this model with H�rster maker mark maybe three times & all were gilt.

Billy it came from Graig Gottlied Military in 2007.Thanks