UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons HJ Edged Weapons Forum HJ Transitional?

Hello Herr Mann & HJ collectors, attached are pics of an HJ knife I own. Stamped on the ricasso, AE [in a box] RZM M7/85. My question, is this considered a transtional? What would be the year/years it was produced? Regards, Leipzig

ROGER, yes transitional, due to the markings. none I've seen so far have a motto, so "1938"-on. I'm guessing about 1939 date.
I personally doubt this company actually made these ; 1) less often seen, 2) none seen (so far)with just the logo alone. 3) not seen any dated ,for later sales(not all the other comp.s dated them either , but many did), & 4) half of these found / seen DONOT have the rzm #85 on them ,but # 25. Which I doubt a worker would mark it wrong like this. holler/ horster/ & klaas transitionals also have most with the same rzm # of klaas(# 37)on them. IT is a good original piece, looks very nice,& little tougher to find; lucky you. jeff h.

Hello Roger,

These knifes are called "transitionals" because they have a RZM and a makers mark. But the term "transitional" has been taken over from SA collecting and is not complettely correct when it comes to HJ's in my opinion. I would call it a "double marked - no motto" HJ.

Why?

Because there exist "double marked - no motto" HJ's dated as late as 1942, that is the last year any HJ knife was produced, so not really a "transitional" period. Typical examples are the Eickhorn RZM "over the sholder" 1942, the Klittermann & Moog RZM 1942, the Ed W�sthoff RZM 1942 among others.

RZM only marked daggers are called "late" when you talk about SA's. Again, this is not the case when it comes to HJ's. You can find RZM only marked pieces (with the motto!) as early as 1936. Typical example is the RZM M7/51 (Anton Wingen Jr) 1936 knife. All the mottoed RZM only knifes are other axamples made in 1938 at the latest.

About your AES RZM M7/85 (Arthur Evertz) HJ knife, as said this company made also rzm only examples, which are considered
to be later.
Jeff could be right that your knife was made in 1939. But because it has a alloy hilt, I would more think 1940-41. But that is also just an estimation.

Best greetings,

Herman

Jeff and Hermann, Thanks for the info! I really don't know much about these knives, I just bought it for a "type/example" piece. Regards, Leipzig