UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum 1198/38 SS opinions welcome

Looks good but I have doubts. Please point out any red flags You can spot.

Was thinking about it myslelf:)

The ss pin is rusty?
Nicely oxided scabbard clips while the crossguard all worn off. Replacement scabbard?
And why the rush?

The TM is the first one.

Gerd

Could you post a better shot of the motto?

Yes for me number 9 is completly incorrect.

Sorry I can not send more pics of the motto because I do not own this dagger. It is offerd for sale here in Poland for.... 1350$ (cheap as hell)....

I meant the M of the TM

Here is a good RZM code,nats

TM is good.

Note: many RZM era crossguards were a zinc-based cheap alloy with a thin plating. The zinc is oxidizing and the plating is disintegrating as seen above.

The RZM scabbard fittings, however, were made of stamped steel and plated but the steel does not disintegrate. If scratched through to the steel, fittings will rust, but it NOT uncommon to see poor looking crossguards and a fine looking scabbard.

That said, that paint job may be a tad later

Maybe I do not have enough experience with late SS RZM daggers but please explain me why I can seen differences between well known original TM and the one I have posted above.

I have marked places on "my" dagger that differs IMO and put one by one on the same picture.

Maybe You guys own dagger 1196/39 with same looking TM as "mine".

Here is mine,
same like nats'
Ralf

Gottlieb your dagger is a fake, sorry for that.

Dear rieny the dagger I have posted is not mine

I have just posted it to hear Your opinions.

Good post Gottlieb. Interesting lesson!

Ok, sorry!

I've seen this dodgy dagger before, if not this one then other one with the same "atypical" 9. I don't like the SS roundel either. $1350? Would be cheap if the dagger was good. IMHO it's a high end fake, probably Czech made with mostly original parts used. If the "creator" of this piece reads this thread, he'll know what mistakes to avoid in the future and his next product may get all the "thumbs up". Sad but very possible.

He read it for sure I think....we are destroying our hobby by ourselves sometimes. Not every detail should be shown on discussions like that.....

Come on I have never seen as good fake as originals are. In hand inspection and You know all. Fake always smells too new.

I see small differences in the two versions of the trademarks, but I am not sure that means that the one shown is a fake. There are several examples of early and late trademarks varying in small details which are accepted by collectors. An examination in hand would be needed in my opinion.

I agree, Dave, the best example is 120/34 logo existing in 2 slightly different variations where the differences in numerals "2" and "4" are easy to spot. The same goes for some SA makers like for example "Chromolit". But in case of the discussed dagger I keep being sceptic simply because I've seen enough fake daggers priced at ca. $1350 on polish, german and czech auctions(do the fakers make agreement on price for their products, or what?) and this very dagger seems familiar to me. OK, if this dagger would come from US vet's family or out of woodwork, I'd accept it, but again : suspicious SS RZM dagger(which is easier to fake - no nickel silver crossguards with Roman numeral needed :)) priced at >>> $1350 <<<, being offered for sale in this part of Europe, well, I simply say "No, thanks".

You mean if the dagger is sold to US buyer & resold you will have no problem with buying it ? If they continue popping up on european auciont you will eventually get your chance:)

I didn't mean "US buyer", since not every dagger coming from the US is automatically problems free. I say: vet or woodwork, and from the trusted seller as a middle man. I'm not into fantastic stories about the items origin. And BTW. I almost never buy on european auctions.

Big mistake dear 777. Sometimes good stuff comes out even in Europe (in Poland). For instance SS with von dem Bach inscription or near mint SS Herder or quite good SS Hammesfahr or Boker. The most important is to pick up items personally to avoid dissapointment.

That's why I wrote "almost". For example: I have nice Tillmans SA from allegro and SS 121/34 from militaria123 and that's about all. And, believe me, I watch all those auctions and really good stuff is like a needle in a haystack. If once in a couple of months something decent pops up, people think they have a traesure and ask the prices from outer space. How many of those good items have you found in so many years on allegro? I haven't seen any good SS dagger there, unless you or me were the sellers.
To make it clear, I'm not like "Amerika good, Europe bad", I just have a clear view on the collectors market and quality/quantity of what can be found via auctions in central part of Europe is even hard to compare to what can be found in the US in general. There is lot of good collections in Europe and I purchased some great items here, but NOT via auctions. Do you get my point now?

I get Your point of view.

By the way I used to have offers from US with fake SS daggers.

Peace Piotr

Not trying to beat a dead horse...... but, why would any of us think that any of the etching be from 1 single template, used over & over for many years ?
that's what it sounds like. I use to work in a factory for 10 + years. I would have variations on the same product through out the whole day. & it's 2010 !
we also know some of the companies that did sell items, did not actually make them, OR at least not all of the componets.
Most of these companies also did NOT do their own etching process(see dress bayonet info.).
so over the years there could NOT be a slight variation by the man making a new template for Eickhorn's SS motto. or the maker mark ??
maybe some one switched etching companies. or old template maker DIED ! and his son made the new one.
NONE of this was computerized in the 30's/ 40's.
& when I go to the store,I can't find 2 bottles of 2 liter soda on the self with the same amount in it, AND that IS by computer.
I see WAY to many items in these forums that get tossed into the trash can, over little stuff , OR no reason. (I'm in 5 forums, 3 outside the country)
just to many variables to not have a variation, on anything....
jeff h.