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SS Collectors: (myself included),- your SS cap or uniform may very well be made from the old clothes of dead Jews; from repulped materiels, ground-up, blended, reprocesed, & dyed black or a shade of feldgrau (grey-green). Read the following important, factual & historical
testimony given at the Nuremberg Trial Proceedings, Vol.20, 196th Day, on Monday, 5.August 1946, by Obergruppenführer Oswald Pohl,-
MAJOR JONES: Let me read to you Oswald Pohl's affidavit, given to Dr. Kempner upon this matter, it is Document 4045-PS, which will be GB-549 so that your memory may be refreshed, the affidavit reads:
1. My name is Oswald Pohl. I was born in Duisburg, Germany, on 30.June 1892. Since 1.Feb.1934 I was Chief of the Economic & Administrative Main Office of the SS (WVHA), I occupied this position permanently until Germany's capitulation.
2. Through my activity as Chief of the WVHA I remember clearly two large business deals between my office and the Reich Ministry of Economics & Reichsbank of Herr Walter Funk. ONE DEAL CONCERNED TEXTILES FROM PERSONS KILLED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS. In this connection Himmler endeavored to procure through the Reich Ministry of Economics Walter Funk, A HIGHER ALLOTMENT OF UNIFORM CLOTH FOR THE SS. The other deal concerned the business connection of my office with Walter Funk & the Reichsbank with regard to jewelry, rings, gold teeth, foreign exchange, & other articles of value from the possessions of people, particularly Jews, who had been killed in Concentration Camps.
2. The connection of my office with the Reichsbank with regard to TEXTILES OF PERSONS WHO HAD BEEN KILLED IN CONCENTRATION CAMPS was instituted in the year 1941, or 1942. At that time I received the order from Himmler, who was my chief, to get in touch with Walter Funk, TO OBTAIN A HIGHER ALLOTMENT OF TEXTILES FOR SS UNIFORMS. Himmler instructed me to demand from Funk that we receive preferential treatment. WALTER FUNK WAS RECEIVING FROM THE KL's, A LARGE DELIVERY OF TEXTILES. THESE TEXTILES HAD BEEN COLLECTED IN THE AUSCHWITZ CAMP, & OTHER CAMPS, & THEN DELIVERED TO THE COMPETENT OFFICES FOR USED TEXTILES. As a result of this order received from Himmler, I visited Walter Funk at his offices. I waited only a short while
in his anteroom & then met him alone in his private office, & informed Funk of my instructions that I WAS TO ASK HIM FOR MORE TEXTILES FOR SS UNIFORMS, SINCE WE HAD BEEN ABLE TO DELIVER SUCH LARGE QUANTITIES OF OLD TEXTILES DUE TO THE ACTIONS AGAINST JEWS. The meeting lasted around 10 minutes. It was openly discussed that WE PERHAPS DESERVED PRIVILEGED TREATMENT ON ACCOUNT OF THE DELIVERY OF OLD CLOTHES OF DEAD JEWS. It was a friendly conversation between Funk & myself & he said to me that he would settle the matter favorably with the officials concerned.

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More related historical information of interest to SS uniform collectors concerning production of Waffen-SS uniforms: With regard to Himmler's visit to the Lublin KL in Poland in July 1941,- excerpts from Himmler's Order,- "On the occasion of his Inspection of Lublin & Zamosc, the Reichsführer-SS has ordered the following: A new Arbeitslager (labor camp) with the required shops for clothing, etc. is to be set up east of Lublin.
The Uniform Store of the Waffen-SS shall fill its requirements from the Lublin workshops for clothing of all kinds. The Uniform Store in Berlin shall set up a Branch Office in Lublin which will see to all supply matters.
Further, large tailors workshops are to be set up, staffed by Jewesses."

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This KL-Lublin Camp had a Uniform & Clothing Arbeitslager set up on the grounds of the former airfield, a practical location as per its proximity to the Lublin Train Station; this information from the original German SS wartime documents at the Majdanek Camp Museum in Poland & in the Lublin City Archive. Also from those documents "On 23.March 1942, a new Camp plan was submitted corresponding to the dimensions of SS-Oberführer Hans Kammler, Chief of Amt II of the WVHA, & it provided for subdividing of the Lublin Camp into three parts:
(1) A prisoner-of-war Camp.
(2) The POW Camp Annex.
(3) The Clothing Manufacturing Plants of the "Waffen-SS Dachau Lublin Branch". 102 barracks were planned, 80 of them housing barracks for 250 prisoners each, totaling 20,000 inmates. The Clothing Manufacturing Plants were separated from the POW Camp Annex by the railway line to Chelm."
20,000 clothing workers making uniforms for the Waffen-SS in Lublin, & this is only at just one Camp... now that's a LOT of uniforms!!

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Furs were of course a hot item taken from Jews (& others),to be used for making those Eastern-Front fur caps (& for making other items of warm clothing). Go to: www.death-camps.org/reinhard/pic/bigarlootfurs.jpg to see an original Bill of Lading dated 9.9.43 for a boxcar full of furs retrieved from Jews sent from Treblinka Camp to the SS Forced-Labor Uniforms Factory at Lublin. As you can see, the SS Clothing Facility at Treblinka was called the "Bekleidungswerk der Waffen-SS", & "Aussenstelle Lublin" (subsidiary outpost of Lublin). This train went from Treblinka to Lublin via the towns of Siedlce, Lukow, & Deblin, then finally using the Lublin connection-track to arrive at the SS-Arbeitslager (the Clothing Factory) at the old Airfield at Lublin.

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Point Taken,very sobering research. When collecting nazi regalia, especially SS items there is always this history. These items are not so cool or sexy to own as the dealers tend to make them to be or to sway the trend setting collectors to be. Very good sobering research done. I own such items as well, KZ (camp)made m42 SS LAH tunic, and KZ(camp) put together SS marked k98.Possible (good chance)other cloth items . Just my two cents.

Joe Semen

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Edited for flaming, insults and profanity


Regards,

Tony

www.SSRelics.net

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Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterward.
-- Vernon Law
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Gents,

This man did some hard and informing to some ,educational research here. Think before you reply here. Bad taste in your comments gents.


Joe Semen

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quote:
Originally posted by Joe Semen:
Gents,

This man did some hard and informing to some ,educational research here. Think before you reply here. Bad taste in your comments gents.

Joe Semen


Yeah Joe, great information (and well-deserving of praise for the exhaustive effort put forth) , just poorly and tastelessly introduced . . . Frown

JMO - Brad


The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have . . . .
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Edited for insults

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Sounds like somebody got up on the wrong side of the rock ..

;o)


"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
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Actually, being relatively new to the forum I found the initial info. quite interesting. I think we all have a general idea that some of the material could have indeed been made of recycled clothing but that shouldn't mitigate the fact that this is a forum and any info. that relates to collecting is good to have. Whether something has been posted in the past or not shouldn't detract from it's informational value. Thanks to the initial poster for your time and effort in putting this in. Some of you may be old hands at this genre but some of us aren't and I think that's what keeps a forum alive and attracting new comers. That's my 2 cents anyway.

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It is all true. But, are we collecting historical artifacts or just "pretty" things. Most collectors (I hope!) are historians first and understand the realities of some of the organisations involved.

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This is an informative thread, but began with a title that was not well thought out and went downhill. I will prune it a bit.

Schlesien - You may want to wake up people but your 5th post - which I have edited - breaks our code of conduct. If you do this again, you will have to find somewhere else to post for a while. The Code of Conduct is at the top of the Forum. Please read it.

Tony Scanlan - you have already told us in another thread that you think GDC rules are stupid. Your post was pointed and insulting. You should take a little time off to read through the Code of Conduct, whether you think it stupid or not.

Dave

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Much better introduction . . . . and still a worthwhile subject of discussion for the slightly less informed . . .

Brad


The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have . . . .
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This is very elementary knowledge already known by most cloth collectors. Germany was not known for it's cotton fields to make fabric from. Even today most new clothes coming from places like China (ie Wal-Mart) most likely came from recycled cloth from somewhere. Geez!

Maybe there was a Brooks Brothers over there that the SS could go to?

Mark Wink

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Schlesien,
Thanks for the interesting information and good research. Hard cold facts of what actually took place. Missed out on the original tittle, must have been bad for admin to change.

No finger pointing here and I normally won't comment on these type threads, but when a member is chastized for puting forth information!... I for one as a member certainly don't mind and have never minded when someone posts info whether I new of the information before hand or have seen it posted on this forum many times.
I feel information is for the forum as a whole, beginner through advanced with beginners signing up every day. I appreciate the time and efford it takes to research and bring to "the forums" attention any and all information regardless. Why anyone would take offense to this, or make light of the content is beyond me.
Don't get me wrong because I collect as well and as we all know, their are various reasons why we collect. But sometimes I get the perception that some feel it necessary to defend in some way what they collect, to justify why they collect or defend the actual owners/perpetrators or but a spin on making a wrong right, rather than except the history "reality" of what it is and what actually happened. Having a piece of "history in your hands" is good enough for me. Hard cold facts IMO.

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Sounds like some people on here can't handle the truth!!!
Roll Eyes

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quote:
Originally posted by drbill:
Sounds like some people on here can't handle the truth!!!
Roll Eyes


Truth is good for all of us - especially for the inquisitive.

"Sensationalized" Truth is not good for any of us collecting TR militaria - that is why Dave "polished" the introduction . . .

Keep this thread going on track - it's good information for all of the "newbies", and I like having them around!

Brad


The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have . . . .
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Schleisen,

How about continuing your lesson by touching on clothing origins in KZ-Dachau? This may be somewhat repetetive for "old-timers", but your doing such a nice job, that I think it would be great for you to continue in your efforts for the "newbies"!

Brad


The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have . . . .
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Mikee,

No information about the subject at hand was removed from this thread.

One member got off an uncalled-for and rude shot and the originator of the thread replied in kind, but with a few extra terms of endearment. Roll Eyes

I don't collect uniforms but I find the info interesting. The title should probably be "Recycling". A lot of cloth ends up being made into high quality paper.

Dave

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Dave, thanks for pruning my introductory title, I also like it much better now.

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Mark, there actually was a Brooks Brothers-style store that the SS could go to, it was Peek & Cloppenburg's store, which grew as a specialty store for men & boy's clothing, & in 1936, added women's garments. According to their original 1933 catalog, any SS man could stroll in & buy a Special-Order Mfg. SS tunic, pants, breeches, overcoat, buckles, caps,- including General's caps of Special-Order mfg. made of silk ! (Seide).

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Yes it's elementary knowledge known to some SS cloth collectors, that the SS used local free labor for uniform/cap mfg., but little or nothing at all is mentioned in many reference books as to where a lot of the cloth came from to make this stuff. Robin Lumsden's inexpensive book "SS Regalia", on page 119, provides very good information on this subject, but generalizes like this; "used local Jewish labor to manufacture uniforms & equipment from property & raw materials seized by the Germans", instead of being specific as to exactly what that property & raw material was & how it was seized.

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Do you know when the SS began using camp labour and clothing to manufacture their uniforms and etc ? During the war, was it only the ss that use this means of manufacturing or did it carry on to the whole german army in the late war years 1944-45?

Thanks Joe Semen

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Litzmannstadt(Lodz ghetto) was incorporated in the Reich in 1939 and by 1941 was filling contracts for the Wehrmacht. The quality of the items made by Jewish labor was unsurpassed. These items are marked 'Wirtschaftsamt Litzmannstadt' that being the economic bureau of the ghetto Jewish council.

Robert


We are the hollow men, we are the stuffed men...leaning together, headpiece filled with straw. Alas!--T.S. Eliot 1925
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Thanks for the info

Joe Semen

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Here's an 1942 / 43 shot from the Warsaw Ghetto of uniforms being delivered.

Clothes left behind/taken from Jews when they were being moved to be 'resettled' east was washed and bundled up at the Ghetto...

Also,,reworked cloth was delivered to the Ghetto and Jewish slave labor was used to manufacture uniforms and certain insignia..

Wonder what the soldiers of the wehrmacht would say if they knew they were wearing uniforms made by Jewish labor and from old clothes that belonged to the Jewish!
*

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Most were probably not anti semites and probably thought nothing about what they were wearing or from where it came. As I mentioned in my post, these items of clothing were of very high quality and workmanship. The very existence of these jewish workers depended on their usefulness--to the Reich.

Robert


We are the hollow men, we are the stuffed men...leaning together, headpiece filled with straw. Alas!--T.S. Eliot 1925
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Fascinating and worthy thread - but I thought such posts were for the Period History or other "non-hardware" forum...

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Where to put some threads is a good question. Since this one is aimed at SS uniforms more than a general history subject, this is a good place for it.

Dave

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..and it wasn't just the clothes removed from lager inmates..by 1942 6 times a year the WHW would combine their fundraising with a clothing collection drive.Many tunics from men no longer needing them(KIA ,POW, political tunics of various orgs deemed surplus..) millions of garments were donated or "donated" from Germans all over the Reich in response to the war drive..

there is no way that the Wehrmacht could have supplied all their soldiers with the proper winter gear(by at least year 2 of the campaign in the east) without these clothing drives.Especially wanted and needed were womens or mens furs and heavy wool items.

My next door neighbour as a child remembers them wanting everybodys woolen underwear!

Can't find that nice A-SS tunic for the collection? 85% chance it ended up as a scarf, mittens or cap for a soldier on the eastern front,the rest donated to Axis allies para military forces..

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Just noticed this old thread. Despite the fact that a comment is truthful, it's not only rude, but the sign of a troublemaker to give the collectors a history lesson on the possible origins of particular items they spent their hard-earned money on. If the person who started this thread is offended, why are they on the website in the first place? If they're not offended, what's the point? What would the Reichsfuehrer say? He'd probably suggest joining a monastery. Ha-ha-ha


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