UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Unusual 1St luft markings

Gentlemen,

I have just received a Heller 1St model luft dagger. On primary eamination it is noticeable that the throat is stamped with #31.

T. Wittmann currently has a Heller 1St luft on offer with #31 stamped on it, so this might well be a factory stamp unless both that & mine by coincidence have the same property stamp number

Upon later examination in good daylight whilst looking for a corresponding number on the crossguard I did indeed find #31 but also faintly discernable beneath the patina what appeared tobe the following.

On one quillion "Horst Kp." & on the other what appears to be "Collb", Cottb, Gollb or Gottb 31.

My initial reaction to finding "Horst" was exitement at the possibility of a personalised dagger, however the remaining inscription was mystifying. There is no doubt on the first inscription of Horst Kp. Horst could be the name of a person or perhaps a place. It seems there is a place called Horst in Germany. I have therefore tried to narrow down the remainder with internet searching.

Collb & Gottb revealed nothing that might give a lead.

Gollb might be an abbreviation of "Gollbogen" in East Germany (Land Sachsen Anhalt)

My search of "Horst Cottb" however revealed something more interesting & led me to a posting on a web site posing a similar question, & I quote.

"can anybody help me with this one, I have an original D.L.V. /1st Luft transitional dagger,on the top scabbord fitting (fixed by staple and original fitting transfered to altered dagger) are the following markings, they are faint but i think...

Horst . KG Cottb 2

the blade also has an inscription ,a little later I think,

Schusitz kampfgeschwader 155/2 staffel , Giebelstadt

I think this is a shooting award inscription for bomber squadron 155/2 staffel,giebelstadt..........later to become kg 158 and help in the anschluss of vienna 1938 as transport etc.

any ideas please,especially on the scabbord bit"

So there we have it, there is at least one other dagger that has this almost identical marking, but quite what it means is still a mystery to myself & the individual posing the above question.

Do any of the Luft enthusiasts know what this marking relates to or indeed has anyone else seen such a marking on 1St lufts? I would love to find out more & would appreciate any input you may be able to offer.

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well i have had similar luft for 25 years+ ,mine has the same markings except collb 2 and is on side of scabbard top fitting,done in same style of dot engraving,top scabbard fitting having also the staple fixing.
the SMF blade has same inscription,perhaps this was annual event.never been able to find any more info on this than what you already have

blade

more..

more.

oops...here`s more

Interesting & mysterious isn`t it?

Mustang, it was your post on 12 O`clock high that I quoted above & to which I have replied.

Thank you for posting your images, the inscription is identical & looks to have been done by the same hand. Let`s hope that someone might be able to shed some light on this.

Your`s is a very nice looking dagger indeed

Heller??? This is the SMF mark. Horst means airfield, the whole word is fliegershorst.

Kees

Thank you for that information!

Part of the enigma is solved.

Mine is a Heller, Mustang has the SMF

Cottbus was a heavily used Luft airbase.

Thank you Mac.

So these daggers were then the property of a unit stationed at Cottbus.
According to the limited info I have so far gathered Cottbus was
primarily a station for bombers & dive bombers
prior to September 1st 1939.

Luftflotte 1 (Air Fleet 1) Nordostdeutschland (Northeast Germany.

Stab/KG.2 (bombers)
I./St. G.2 (dive bombers)

Cottbus was also a production facility for Focke Wulf.

Neat to have a marked piece, thanks guy`s

Vaughan,

checked my crossguard of the Heller first luft, and it has the numer 45 on it.

Kees

hi Vaughan,
do you have Google Earth on your pc,if you do ..search for cottbus germany then once you`re there scan around a bit you`ll see pics of the runway.zoom in a bit,pan around and alter angles and you`ll see the airbase as it was a couple of years ago.
lot of choppers,some fixed wing oldies and some jets,pressume these are for show as not in hangers but on grassed areas no where near taxi-ing areas
nevertheless good to look at and interesting being cottbus.
same goes for giebelstadt as on my blade but all choppers look active on take-off areas as of a couple of years ago.believe giebelstadt has now had the US withdraw from base.
neat to look at ,but just wonder if US bases in germany should have been pictured to such detail that even i can get for free,can count staff cars on carpark and even spot the outdoor swimming pool.the number and type of choppers is obvious.
never could figure out how my dagger has cottbus on scabbard and giebelstadt on blade as they are a long way away from each other ,unless the dagger was re-issued after being adapted from dlv to 1st luft.or maybe the owner just changed bases and was allowed to take his dagger ,then won the shooting contest so they engraved his blade
does your scabbard throat have any markings where the blade enters,mine has very early partial acceptance mark ,just visable with an eyepiece.

have posted a request for info on a cottbus forum,will let you know if any responses

Just dragged some of my 1ST lufts out and I have also noticed a similar inscription. I dont really want to clean it as it is hidden under the patina, I will attempt a brass rubbing and post the results.

Thanks for the info. Google earth?? Hmm probably not cos I`ve never heard of it. I`ll have a look anyway & see what I can come up with.

Scabbards can get switched for any number of reasons I suppose, especially if they are not personal property. This is commonly seen on the RAD em`s where often the numbers are mis matched due to switches in the unit/store. Mine has a corresponding #31 on the scabbard throat so I am pleased to note that the dagger & scabbard have always been together.

I have a similar piece by Weyersberg with the following.
Flg.H.Kp.Stade 1
It also has the accountability number 13.
As far as I know this translates to Airfield Company but the Stade 1 bit has me stumped.Any help would be much appreciated.I also noticed the variations in engraving quality between the items featured on the thread and mine.
Regards JOHN

Stade was also a luft airbase.