UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum German Police Sword Variations

Gentlemen,

I thought I would open a thread on German Police Sword Variations. Most of us are familiar with the standardized Polizei-F�hrer-Degen and Polizei-Unterf�hrer-Degen that was worn by policemen after police uniforms were standardized after 1936. I am hoping that others will post variations of this style of Polizei Degen.

Here is an example of the standard Polizei-Unterf�hrerdegen by Weyersberg. It has the typical stainless steel blade found on these police swords and has an aluminum 1936 Polizei eagle inset into the black wooden grip. The scabbard has only one nickeled top fitting and the drag is plain painted steel as is correct for these NCO swords. The knot is the standardized Polizei Offizer Portepee that was worn by both Pol-Offiziere and Pol-Unteroffiziere mit Portepee.

George

The Deutsche Polizei wore other styles of long swords in addition to the standardized NS Zeit Polizei Degen shown above. I will post some other long police swords as long as you guys post examples of the standard Polizei Degen. Feel free to post any other examples of long police swords on this thread.

Here is a Prussian Schutzmannss�bel as was worn in Imperial times. This S�bel was manufactured by WKC and was worn by enlisted policemen as late as the time of the Weimar Republic. It was still shown in catalogs as late as 1924 and 1927. The fittings of this sword are gold colored and the scabbard is black leather.

George

Notice the slab sided blade with the single knight helm logo of WKC on the ricasso. The hilt is cast in one piece with the grip being yellow metal as well as the backstrap and guard. These swords will be found in both white metal and yellow metal. This D guard metal hilt configuration is a distinctive police style of sword for patrolmen and NCOs (Mannschaftss�bels).

George

George,
I like!! Some very nice swords. If memory serves me correctly the Prussian Schutzmannss�bel was slightly different later day version of the Prussian Model O/St 1818 infantry saber - which itself was taken from the French Model AN IX light infantry short sabers taken as spoils following the Napoleonic Wars.
FP

George,

Very, very nice!

I presently have my eye on the shortest Polizei officers sword that I've ever seen. The blade length is only 25 inches and it's not a Kindersabel. If I get it I'll post some snaps.

Best regards!

Bill

FP,

Thank you for the response. You are correct about this style of sword coming from the earlier French light infantry short swords. As the Germans took them out of service with the Prussian Infantry, they came to be utiliized by the Polizei and Gendarmerie. Typically, the gold colored ones were used by rural police while the white colored ones were in service with the municipal police agencies.

Bill,

I would love to see your shorty Polizeidegen. There were some short guys that wore these little swords but they are few and far between.

Also, I made an error on the Prussian Schutzmannss�bel I posted above. This particular one is an Imperial police sword with the king & knight head logo rather than one with a single knight head logo. Here is a page from the Imperial Weyersberg Kirschbaum und Company catalog showing this exact police sword.

Here is another police sword in white metal that was worn in a frog instead of on slings. The sword is identical in configuration, size, and length to the gold one shown above and the scabbard is also black leather. This particular sword was manufactured by Eickhorn and has the Eickhorn back to back squirrels logo on the ricasso.

View of the hilt of the Eickhorn sword in white metal. Notice the elongated frog stud on the scabbard.

Closeup view of the hilt showing the all metal construction, including the grip. These swords had sturdy D shaped guards that could be utilized as an impact weapon by the policeman. The broad blade could either cut or the side of the blade could be used as an impact weapon for riot control.

Here is an Imperial WKuC catalog illustration showing this particular police sword that was worn in a frog.

George

Bill & George:
It has been my experience that some Austrian Polizei swords are the shortest of all.
Some being cut-down regular swords and their corresponding scabs.
I've also seen a number of South American Police blades that are shorter than others.
Jax

Jack,

You are correct, of course, about the Austrian Polizei swords. Austrian Police NCOs wore short swords and officers wore long swords as a general rule.

The Austrian Police wore short swords from frogs that had cut down blades. Actually, the blades were cut down from existing stocks but they were plated after being cut down and do not look like the cut down Prussian Polizei bayonets that were not re-plated. I have posted this short sword before under another thread but here is a photo of an Austrian Polizei short sword as you describe. Again, these continued to be worn after the annexation of Austria until the police could be supplied with regular German police uniforms and swords.

Here is an example of the longer Austrian Polizei Officer sword. They could also wear the standard long basket hilt officer sword.

Closeup of the hilt. The short NCO sword has a leather grip while the longer Officer sword has a sharkskin grip. Both hilts are nickeled steel as are the scabbards. The Austrian Republic Polizei Portepee has the national colors of red/white/red and has no slide on the strap. The Quaste is closed on the NCO sword knot while it has open tassels on the Officer sword knot.

Photographs of the Austrian Police swords in wear. This comes from a 1933 copy of "Bergland" with a special section on the Austrian Police. The NCO on the left wears the short sword while the Officer on the right wears the longer sword of the basket hilt style. Notice the Portepee with closed Quaste worn by the NCO and the Portepee with the open Quaste worn by the Officer. Also notice the Prussian Iron Cross II worn by the Officer in his buttonhole. Both of these fellows seem to be qualified airmen of some sort as they seem to have air badges on their right pockets if I am not mistaken.

George

George:
Great shots of the Austrian Polizei!
Your blades are definitely nuch better than mine.
I've sadly, never gotten into the portapee end of adding them to my blades...most of those I've purchased seem to have been added by the dealer...and usually they are portapees of different countries!
"Roll with the punch" I always say.
Thanks for the pictures.
Jax

I GOT THIS A FEW YEARS BACK. IT COST ME DEARLY...

ANOTHER OF MY SWORDS...

NOT QUITE A SWORD BUT STILL NICE...

Gunnett,

Two very nice Police Officer swords (and bayonet) that you show. What are the makers on your two swords? The variation with the SS runes in the pommel has always interested me.

The SS\Police sword was marked top to bottom:
ALCOSO
A SCALE DESIGN C
S
SOLINGEN

The other police sword is marked top to bottom:
ROBERT KLAAS
+ TWO STANDING BIRD DESIGN +
SOLINGEN.

Gunnett,

Thanks for the maker information on your excellent swords. I wonder if anyone else has an example of the Polizei Degen with the SS runes on the pommel nut that differs from your Alcoso example?

I have never been able to figure out a couple of things about the Polizei-F�hrer-Degen:

First, is why are some of the officer grip eagles copper while some are silver color? Obviously, some of the copper eagles seem to never have had silver plating so the loss of silver plate does not seem to answer the question entirely.

Second, were the SS runes in the pommel only limited to one maker or was it an available extra part option that could be screwed onto any Degen?

Thirdly, why would a police officer buy a separate pommel (or a second sword for that matter) if he held dual membership in the SS? Police officers could simply wear the SS Degen and/or the SS Portepee to signify SS membership.

Here is a period uniform plate done by Kn�tel that shows the SS Degen in wear by the police. The Verwaltungspolizei Officer on the right is wearing the sword with the SS runes in the grip (although it is not obvious on the scan) along with the SS Offizier Portepee.

George

Hi George,

Here is a Polizei-F�hrer-Degen with SS pommel made by WKC.

Here are two of mine. Paul Weyersberg on top and WKC on bottom. I believe that most Police did not receive the honor degen with runes on the grip.

The pommels.

WKC NCO. George, did the frog/hanger come on your NCO degen? I don't remember seeing one like that. Can we please have a better photo of it. Thanks, Dale

SS NCO in my collection (not maker marked). SS "Culture mark" on the guard.

Pommel Nut:

So many neat Police swords!

Denny,

Thanks for showing your WKC. I see your SS rune pommel is different than that of the Alcoso on Gunnet's. Good information that tells us there was not simply one generic SS rune pommel. I notice your WKC has a silver grip eagle just as does Gunnet's Alcoso while his Klaas (without a SS rune pommel) has a copper eagle.

Dale,

Your WKC and your Weyersburg both have copper grip eagles. This is my problem/question with these silver or copper grip eagles...no consistency that I can see. Can you tell if your pommels are different from each other and is your WKC pommel different than Denny's WKC pommel with runes? Dale, the verticle hanger did not come with my Pol NCO sword. The Pol NCO Degen would normally have the long plain black strap with a nickel regain hook and chain or the short teardrop sword hanger in black (for Schutzpolizei) or brown (for Gendarmerie). It MIGHT have a white hanger for parade, but that is not certain. I have seen few white parade sword hangers and never one that was dated during the NS Zeit.

Here are a couple of the normally accepted SS Officer Degen hangers with silver wire bullion facing. I suppose they might have also been worn on police Officer swords of this type (with runic pommels) as well. The NCO Pol Degen strap is similar, except that it has no bullion facing.

George

Well, George, I don't know if you were refering to a dated white parade sword hanger in strap form or tear-drop. Here is a 1937 dated white strap hanger. No police acceptance or SS. I had it in my hands some years ago but was unable to purchase it. The collection was later sold at one of the Max Auctions in Pittsburgh. I would think this would have been used for those senior NCOs authorized to wear their Unter-offizier Degen. For parade, the officers would have worn the tear drop hanger, silver tress on green for officers and gold tress on green for generals and officials of general rank.

Here is a shot of the manufacturer mark and date on the reverse.

Here are a couple of police long swords (sabers) that were used by the German mounted police. The heavier saber at the top is an Imperial issue saber adopted by the Prussian Schutzpolizei in the Weimar era for use by its mounted police. Below it is an Eickhorn Model 189, listed in an Eickhorn catalog as a Extrawaffe for Mounted Police NCOs.

The heavy police saber is marked on one side with the 1920 stamp and on the other with the property marking of the Schutzpolizei Breslau.
The Extrawaffe is unmarked except for the Eickhorn logo. The large green striped police sword knot would be proper with these sabers.
Use of the saber by police mounted units was discontinued in 1940/41.

hi all,
a long time since i`ve been on here but here goes,my weyersberg police with a `variation`......triple etched

another pic

another

reverse

reverse again

triple,bit hard to photo

George,
Here are some more pictures of the WKC Polizei-F�hrer-Degen with SS pommel. Like you, I would love to have a deeper understanding of copper vs. silvered Polizei grip eagle. It appears there is no rhyme nor reason to it. Hope these pics help.