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#19826 02/28/2010 07:16 PM
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tiep Offline OP
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just to vent. I am really getting tired of these dealers who dont know a minty blade from a very well used but clean blade. Just an example but some of these folks treat some buyers as if we're total dumb -----!Do they really think these worn close to junk dags are really something.A slight ding in a hilt fitting usually ends up being an all out smash. Wake up you nerds!! I'd hate to buy a car or anything for that matter from them.If there were regulations on this they'd loose their license ....blind eyes you make this hobby look bad. Sad part , quite a few seem to be very familiar with this site, they know better, seems they live by the "there's a ****er born every minute rule"

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the blocked out word was something you put in your mouth and is flavored, usually attched to a little stick. nasty word I guess. Big Grin

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Hi Tiep,

What site?

Jim

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Hi Jim , I wont name drop but I will if you pm me . I'll even send photos, messages/ emails. Lot of jokers out there. Wink

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Things always look better when you're selling than when you're buying, at least some are described that way. Get photos, ask questions, get more photos, insist on a return privilege.

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Well I just recieved a dagger from the biggest boys out there and sure enough the scabbard was on top of 3 scabbard nicks , nothing bad but surely not shown in the photos. I give a pretty stiff comment on it and am given a short lecture on it, and that there is by no means any misdoing on the presentation of the piece , and yes as stated , please return if your not happy. Well ya know maybe I wouldnt have wasted my time if Id have seen this.I dont care who it is , they are not forthright in my book , tough!

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How many times has someone bought an item and when it arrives without a scabbard screw or with additional damage, or only 20% of the paint instead of 90%.

Just to hear that standard answer, "I didn't notice".

How do you not notice that a set of leather hangers has been mended in the middle?

I think people should start posting items and names misrepresented so the rest of the community can see specifically who is doing this.

Jim

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When I first started collecting many moons ago, I bought a second model navy dagger from a "well-known dealer." One of the biggest in the business. When it arrived, it was obvious the portepee was in much nicer condition than the dagger and not showing the dagger's age and wear. I didn't like the looks of it, so removed it. The grip was missing a chunk of celluloid, the hole being hidden by the portepee. The missing chunk was nowhere to be found, indicating the damage was not done with the portepee attached, at least not that portepee. I returned it and received a refund and a scathing letter from the dealer, stating items must be returned in the condition sent and I was fortunate he was allowing a refund since the portepee was removed. He insisted the dagger was in the condition he bought it. Now, this guy's supposed to be one of the foremost experts in the field. Here I was, a novice collector that spotted something fishy immediately, as did my wife, who knows nothing about the hobby. Ironically, many years later I was involved in getting some $7500 returned to him as the result if a scam. I didn't expect a thing in return, but he did offer to send me a current edition of his catalog. I politely declined. Since the dagger incident, I have not bought another dagger or other edged weapon from him and never will. As always, "let the buyer beware," regardless of who the seller is.

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Yeh Grumpy, they may have big names and big reputations but THEY know more than anyone that they arent 100% up front, what also kills me is they wouldnt discount a piece because of these issues. I guess it would admit guilt. On the otherhand smaller guys ko a few bucks no problem.What really kills me is the arrogance some have. Frown

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Hi tiep , that arrogance comes from collectors who bow down an take every word said or printed by them as gospel , God forbid they would do there own research an buy a decent set of books. Cheers Rob

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Send them back for a refund. I have done that several times. If you get no satisfaction, post details here.

That said, sellers tend to miss faults and buyers seem to spot them. Nothing new there. All this stuff is used and 65 years old (we hope) at least.

Dave

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I think the crux of the matter here is honest descriptions by the sellers. Some of them have been around for years, written books, are considered experts in the field, etc. All well and good, but they, of all people, should be able to spot flaws. Flaws, above all, should be included in descriptions. It is disappointing to receive an item with glaring flaws that should have been described, but weren't. Following the disappointment, the buyer has to bear the burden and expense of returning the item and the original cost of the shipping. Some sellers have the gall to charge a "restocking fee." The attitude by some sellers seems to be to "pump up" the description, don't mention the flaws and hope the buyer will keep the item when received, ignoring the problems. Not only is such unethical, it insults the intelligence and knowledge of the buyer. Such occurences are bad enough on their own, but a "lecture" by the seller regarding a return adds insult to injury.

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This is a sad fact that buyers MUST do their homework and really study the items they buy. There is a well know dealer on here that sold me a reblued scabbard. After taking it out in the natural sun light it stuck out like a sore thumb. Even smelled like bluing. I asked him to compare it to his minty example, he refused. He also tried to sell it to 2 other major dealers only to have it returned. Again he tried to sell it on an major auction sight. (glad I saved the add Wink) Never mentioned the re-blued issue. It was "pristine". If you sniff his case at the shows it really stinks of bluing. Same guy sold me a sword with a retiped blade, said it was Mint untouched. Not the case! 4 dealer/collectors all said it was played with and retiped. When I asked the seller about this he said “they are full of SH”T and would not even look me in the eye.
Word is out people, but new ****er's will be there to eat up the bad items. There as some people that get away with this crap over many years, then it becomes "normal". The more questions I starting asking around about this person, lets just say the worm hole became VERY VERY VERY deep! At what point does the money mean more to a peron than their reputation, dignity or honor? Sell your sole for a 30 bits of silver??? Anyone? Devil is in the details.

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There must be a disconnect with some people and dealers over the intelligence of the community.

For example, when I see a reproduction on a dealers site. I will not buy there. I believe most collectors are the same.

However, if you point out to the dealer and even give citation as to proof it is a fantasy or reproduction, the seller still argues.

I have found it is best just to expose these sellers to my friends and fellow collectors.

After the new book from Russia where the fakes and fantasies are listed as originals. I am seeing more and more fakes on major delaers sites.

So, on day there are fakes and then because of a un researched book, they are all originals?

Give me a break. And these are the leaders of the hobby.

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim W:
I have found it is best just to expose these sellers to my friends and fellow collectors.
QUOTE]
I agree, however when a dealer knows an item it bad and keeps trying to pass it off as good by using his reputation, this is fraud and people can go to jail for this. Money is the root cause. Oddly some of my collector buddies are “scared “ to speak out as there is a click of people that watch each others backs. Many SR. Collectors stated the same people get away with this crap time and time again, year after year.
Bottom line, deal with people who you can trust, There are several great honest dealers-collectors. IMO 90% of them are ok to deal with. It’s a few bad apples that have tarnished the hobby, word is out, we know who they are. They have no one to blame but themselves.

I rarely post on GD.com anymore, think I will stop again as I have said too much already.

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I'm a helmet guy myself but what you all are saying is true in that end of collecting as well. I would like to have a few daggers, but there is so much to learn and after reading the above comments I would like to ask a simple question - which dealers are reliable & trustworthy?


Magna res est vocis et silentii temperamentum.
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What is the name of the book from Russia, that the dealers are using to justify selling bad pieces?

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quote:
Originally posted by Rev.Mike:
I'm a helmet guy myself but what you all are saying is true in that end of collecting as well. I would like to have a few daggers, but there is so much to learn and after reading the above comments I would like to ask a simple question - which dealers are reliable & trustworthy?


There are a couple that are trustworthy but frankly the only dagger dealers I have dealt with who are objective in their descriptions are Paul Vondrak, & Paul Hogle. I mostly buy from other collectors when I can.


War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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Here is the link to the discusion on Fedurin and his "Dirks of the World".

Dirks


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