UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Have SAs cooled a bit in the last few weeks/ months?

it seems like the entire hobby has been dead of late... is it seasonal? are all daggers slow right now?

or am i completely off-base?

it just seems like product has been slow moving everywhere lately...( and please, no dealers chiming in to say everything is going overseas... I see the same inventory month after month on the dealer websites)

I mean even around here, very few new acquisitions being posted...

I think everything is slow right now, I think 3.00 gas is hurting most peoples pocket books sales at the mall I'm in have been really down and most people I talk to say the same. Mike

I agree Tex.
Looks mighty slow in the hobby from where I am sitting as well.

Do you think the reason might be that most collectors are fed up with the outrageous prices dealers are asking? If it is, then prices should come down sooner or later.

The 'right' SA's never hit the public market. The very best SA daggers sell between private members via e-mail contacts and I must comment that there is NO slowdown in the nice ones from my personal experience.

I must have bought my last 10 that way and sold about 50 like that. No advertising, just quiet offers back and forth.

Mark

I think me have entered a very interesting period. I believe that ALL the above comments have merit, in my opinion. No really...
It's not the heady days of a year or two ago. A lot of guys are starting to feel the pinch. But we had 3 buck gas before and daggers were moving fast then too.
The few daggers than make it through eban's "gauntlet" seem to bring at or close to record figures. A Red Cross, very clean, $1,426.00, A retipped early SA currently at 1K.
However, a lot of dealer stock is not "moving" as it should, or did.
On the other hand, as Mark says, deals are done between guys left and right. If you agree with what has been said, then what is really going on?
Well my take is that is the "real" economic factors that are at play. Things are not as Rosy as the Media tells us it is. One big factor, in my opinion, is the reversal of the Real-Estate market nationwide. You can't flip houses anymore. It's getting harder to get home equity lines of credit due to tighter banking reqd's and the start of real loss of value in real-estate residential properties. Now I do know a couple of people who would flip a house,
by more 3rd reich. Buy another house, take a equity line, buy 3rd reich, sell the house. And so on. For about 5 to 6 years now.
Well the problem is, again in my opinion, the music has suddenly stopped!
Now "they" are starting to sweat the monthly payment because it has been listed for 6 months with no buyers... Go to the bank for a equity line...no equity even after 6 months..
However the well healed, old money, collector is in a different league and hasn't been playing that game. So he's not feeling it.. so as far as he's concerned everything is .
-wagner-

quote:

Originally posted by kingtiger:
The 'right' SA's never hit the public market. The very best SA daggers sell between private members via e-mail contacts and I must comment that there is NO slowdown in the nice ones from my personal experience.

I must have bought my last 10 that way and sold about 50 like that. No advertising, just quiet offers back and forth.

Mark

I have to agree with Mark on this one, as I have bought most of my nicest daggers from dealers and collectors alike, before they even hit the general public.
I get several e.mails a year from dealers asking me, if I would be interested in buying such and such daggers before it became public.
Most of the time I say "yes" , as these guys usually know what I'm looking for.
You have to understand that most dealers have a list of things that there best clients wants.
When I did get my Army Damascus by Tiger couple of month ago, only a handful of people knew that I was on the search for such an extremelly rare blade.
It just happened that Jason Burmeinster was the dealer that got that dagger for me.
These types of blades would never hit the open market as they are extremelly rare.
Since I had my Army Damascus, I already had 3 e.mails from 3 top dealers in the US asking me to give them a call the minute I wish to sell it.
Sadly for them, they will have to wait till I die.

Agreed Pat, and my offer for free skydiving lessons still stands!!! :>

the fact that Pat and Mark are still buying doesnt disguise the fact that the market appears really really slow right now.

I would venture to say that you guys were buying blades behind the scenes anyway. What I mean is for the average collector, in all areas. I am sure that Pat and Mark, while your purchasing activity may have not changed at all, would have to admit that you have seen a drop off (significant?) over the past few months..

I am not making a comment on your activity, but on the hobby as a whole. I consider myself a collector, and I am always looking, and looking for good deals. But in comparison to some of the 'serious' collectors I know, I am small potatoes. And even the serious collectors I talk to think that the hobby is slow right now.

Its tough to put my finger on. Is it a changing economy? Is it a backlash against dealer greed? Is it all the drama found on the forum? Is it burnout? Is it seasonal? I dont know. But for me, I havent seen anything in a while that even causes me to double-take. And from what I gather, I am not the only one who has noticed this, at least among the small circle I correspond with. I am just wondering if others have noticed this too..

Does the hobby as a whole seem slower right now?

I aree with everything said above, but would make one clarification.
The NICE stuff is what is being traded between collectors, and the NICE stuff will always sell. But the Exc+, common maker, "not so special" Heers, Lufts, SAs, HJs, etc. seem very slow now when in the recent past these pieces too were snapped up greedily.
It is as if the entire hobby is holding out for the MINT and RARE more than it has in the recent past. Fair conditioned representative pieces are just not moving much.
JMHO.
Good hunting,
Johnny

PS- Mark, please put me on that list you've got of guys you offer 50 daggers to a year, I think I'd like to be among those lucky devils! Look forward to hear from you!

No question it has cooled.
For whatever the reasons are, the collector of average means is not buying like he used too. I'm starting to hear about money getting "tight". You didn't hear that a year ago.
Look at the dealers stock. A year ago the "Toms" had NO SS daggers listed. You had to call them to get on the "PLEASE CALL ME" list.
Pat just showed us a screamer SS - 33 that he picked up from a dealer who had it listed for MONTHS. JR has a decent early slant grip, taper tang Wingen Heer for $595.00 - no takers. I can go on but I do "feel" a change.
Oh, and as for me... a year ago I was buying hand over fist. Now.. It has to be a DEAL or I'll walk and not look back.
-wagner-

Recently SA was the hottest thing on earth; it was like panic because all this talk about rushing away buying all good pieces you can afford while they still available at reasonable prices and before Wittmans SA book is coming out etc…

It really been some kind of weird climax out there so this feeling many members have that the market has became slow is a strength feeling and could possible depend on many different things.

The climax maybe has become a sort of anticlimax.
Most average collectors are probably in this hobby for the pleasure and joy to collect and study and not for the stress and the rush to spend unlimited money on the best pieces because some say they should.

Average collector can’t afford the best and the rarest pieces anyway even if they were given the opportunity to purchase some of those desirable pieces.
I think it’s the average collectors market that has slowed down a bit as a result of maybe just temporary exhaustion.

The bigger time collectors are always on the hunt for the best and rarest pieces, and they mostly have no problem to afford what they really looking for.
This market is mostly invisible for the average collector and will certainly remain unchanged forever.

Just my thoughts!


When comparing collectors market with ignorant buyers market on auction sites.

I do not like auction sites but as I see bad rusty part daggers and fakes selling all the time with non existent descriptions and extremely bad pictures for too much money I decided to do a test with a couple of nice SA:s on a Swedish auction site which now is a part of e-bay.

I recently listed a couple of nice fair priced SA:s with very detailed honest descriptions and good clear pictures, just to see the bidder’s reaction when listed good genuine stuff for a change.
I do sell a smooth Neiderhardt & Schmidt for $890, only one bid with one minute left before the auction ended….only one fellow wanted that babie...Hmm something’s wrong here?

I also listed a very nice Bickel but nothing happened except a couple of guys e-mailed me asking for lower price if doing business outside the auction site, I refused of course.
I have now listed a descent Erhardt Reich SA, hundreds of people have watching but no bid so far.
A couple of days left…will see what’s happen until my test is over and out.

My conclusion of this test is that ignorant buyer prefers crappy, rusty, part daggers from ignorant sellers instead of good original pieces from serious collectors; I don’t understand it at all but this is the way it is.

I have not very much experience about ebay, maybe it’s the same, any opinions?

Sam,

100% agree with Nakida. I observed exactly the same on different auction sites, both east and west. I really can't understand the "logic" of those so called ignorant buyers . The underexposed, unsharp, lowest quality pics seem to be the key to success.
And of course : parts, parts, parts... Even if total cost of "kit" is higher than of a decent dagger.

We are worst enemies sometimes and it worsens whenever someone publishes a new book.

I still remember when SA "type" collecting took off a few years ago and on this forum the "Bulldog" maker was the flavor of the day. Not sure if those threads are still around. If I recall that is when we first saw an SA go over $1K. I think the same (or similar) dagger came up for sale later and did not go for that when sold. It was "one-up-manship" that drives this. Some people, like me, bail early.

Didn't that happen with everyone rushing to collect "3 letter" codes on K98 bayonets including riveted gripped ones?

I bought a G43 pouch when they started hitting the market, then the market flooded, now it's not worth what I paid.

People get swept up in the tide, but the tide does go out.

PS - When I first started collecting, I asked a dealer mentor friend of mine why he so had much crap on his table. He said the words I utter all the time. "Crap sells".

Nakida, Nice Wilhelm Reich.
I used to know the Swedish Kroner was 8 to $i.00. But since the dollar gone down, how much is it now? 4700 Kroner opening bid?
Regards,
-wagner-

I think the market picks up before the big shows, like the SOS, and hopefully the MAX. Dealers trying to get inventory and collectors refining their collections trying to build up a war chest. We are between big shows at the moment.

John

quote:

Originally posted by wagner:
Nakida, Nice Wilhelm Reich.
I used to know the Swedish Kroner was 8 to $i.00. But since the dollar gone down, how much is it now? 4700 Kroner opening bid?
Regards,
-wagner-

Wagner!

1 USD = 6.75010 SEK for the moment, so 4700 SEK = 697 USD

Sam,

quote:

Originally posted by MSapp:
I think everything is slow right now, I think 3.00 gas is hurting most peoples pocket books sales at the mall I'm in have been really down and most people I talk to say the same. Mike

The average price of petrol here in the U.K. is approximately equivalent to $8.90 per gallon. How do you feel that may impact in the U.S.?
Public disorder? Rioting in the streets perhaps?

and rising!

Vaughan. The American Public? Well let's see.
In 1973 during the last "phoney" gas shortage, we had gas up to $1.00! We all started to get rid of the "Gas Guzzlers".."Muscle cars". People were real upset.. Now, this bunch today after hearing that gas will go up to $4.00 by end of summer, go and buy a BIGGER SUV. Back then there was demonstrations by the hundreds of thousands aganist "scam wars" and "Daddy Warbuckers". Today .. .... ....? I don't want to get started but to say they are under Mind control!!
Nothing maybe short of a mushroom cloud will move this bunch.. Public disorder? Rioting in the streets? That's too much WORK!!
-wagner-

Pedant of the Month..
Try US$ 7.23/USgall as Tesco equiv.
Seiler (Yank in UK)

There are 3 major causes at the moment that make the market slow in my opinion:

- The low rate of the US$: the market currency for these items still is the US$, for Americans the stuff is getting too expensive, for Europeans it is not such a good investment any more, because the value (in $US) goes down.

- E-Bay's severe policy: new collectors were drawn into the hobby after buying a first piece on E-Bay, this is history due to the complete banning of daggers and bayonets from the E-Bay sites (in Europe). Other auction sites are very marginal, we can speak about an E-Bay monopoly.

- Lack of new supply: an other way to draw in new collectors have been the shows. Today, finding a good first piece at a show becomes very difficult. I was at Ciney Militaria (a big European show with about 25000 attendees in 1 day) last month and could not find a single qualitative HJ knife for sale. So how can someone start to collect daggers?

Best greetings,

Herman