UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons German Sword & Miniatures Forum Luft General's Sword on E-Bay

I can't believe no one has posted a thread about this auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-General-Air-force-sword-orig...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem














Opinions on the sword?

The seller has 98.5% feedback and the item is said to be located in the United States.

This sword, being in its current condition, is around 20 grand and yet, he does not indicate a reserve.

There also seems to be something wrong with the blade. The ricasso is unusually short and half of the TM disappears under the hilt.

In addition, the TM is on the wrong side of the blade.

Thanks for weighing in with your expertise Manfred. I have only seen 2 of these swords in the flesh - they are not exactly "common."

You're right too - if he knew it was real, he could sell it to outright to a top dealer, or even as a consigment, and get a big price. Why E-bay?

Once upon a time in the �wayback� there was a guy in Hollywood who was reported to have a closet full of Luftwaffe General�s swords. One sold and another came out. With some being fitted into custom made presentation cases. He also had a ton of medals made as I recall somewhere in Austria using leftover original die sets from the war. It�s only a matter of time until all of the reproductions he handled slowly reemerge to be resold to a new generation of unsuspecting collectors.

Caveat Emptor!! FP

Hmmm... if the sword is a reproduction it still is worth something. Does anyone know the market value of a repro Luftwaffe General sword? Regards, Dane

From what the seller tells me I believe he is going to end the ebay listing early and then solicit offers. He says he bought it 25 years ago from an old man in Germany who needed money.
I would like to make an offer if I only knew what this sword (be it a repro or original) is really worth. Any ideas? Regards, Dane

Gee guess what, only accepts bank transfers. thats a real shocker! Looks like a scam waiting to happen. Buyer beware! Don't be a chump.

Sorry Dane - no benchmarks on that one mate. If that is what he is going to do, I would bet the starting "bid" would be the last highest bid from the E-bay auction, and then he will sort his e-mails by dollar value.

Quality repros are almost impossible to price. I am not talking a cheap Spanish SS with a caste blade. I am referring to beautiful and well made pieces. In many instances, they are as well made as the originals. The HJ leader repros are an example. I saw an NPEA leader with a real damascus blade and gold etch once. An obvious repro because those were never made as far as I know, yes, but it sure was pretty.

Thanks to Eric about the "bank transfer only" warning. Those kind of sales would make me wary.

I had seen that auction a couple of days ago. havn't even bothered to request photos. Thanks for posting them. Good point about a lack of reserve and I recall Fred bringing that point up sometime back regarding the Hollywood closet.

Caveat Emptor indeed sir!

Tom, I agree 100%. Bank transfers are a very bad way to feel comfortable. You usually need a lot of Preparation H after such a deal.

Mark

It looks like a reproduction to me.Is anything ever sold on that sight that is original or not having a glaring defect in someway?

Yes, Fred is correct. Roger Steele had a closet full of them. He always displayed one in his storefront window from what I can recall in 1967 -68. Same guy right Fred? -Wagner-

In a way I am glad that I passed up the opportunity to buy this sword. Whether it was an original or repro sword is almost besides the matter when you have serious doubts about the seller. Below is the entire email I received from the seller (he withheld his name). Would you feel comfortable buying from this person?

Regards, Dane

" hallo ,

I bought this sword from old man. I bought this sword 25 years ago.
I was in germany and I was buying sword and daggers and bayonets from old man. Old man needed money.
Sword is 100% original!!! I bought swords and daggers and bayonets.
maker is Eickhorn

look at photos. Sword is very rare. I have many offers. To night I will close auction and consider all offers.
give me oofer , if you are interetsed

very thanks "

Well, obviously English is not his first language, but that is certainly no sin. You all should hear my pitiful German, Spanish, or French.

It looks like someone got the sword - for how close to this price, I do not know.

quote:

The seller ended this listing early to sell to the high bidder(s) at current bid price.


Winning bid: US $1,525.00

Hi B�rse,

The point of my showing the seller's email was not to poke fun at his typing. I had asked the seller for some straightforward information about the sword, shipping costs, guarantee, payment, etc. and, as you can see from his reply, the only info I got was the story of how he obtained it. This lack of information, coupled with the observations by you, Manfred, Mark and others, made me think twice about this seller. It's too bad the deal went private, because I would really like to know the final price for a repro Luftwaffe General Degen's sword.

Regards, Dane

Dane - I see your point and agree with what you said. Not answering the questions posed should raise suspicion.

In any case, I wonder who bought it. I suppose it will turn up somewhere again in the future. In any case, quite an interesting piece.

If I remember correctly an Eickhorn Luft Gen sword was as SOS last year with the trademark too high on the ricasso, cant remember which side of the blade is was on . Joe S

Ahh, Sirgregoryjames... This Guy spams a lot of us on the Forum with all sorts of TR stuff, he sells a lot of fakes. I've often asked for detailed pics on his stuff and they are mostly bad. JMO

Red

Wagner, Roger Steele was the name I remember mentioned. And the name of the shop I think was something like �Hollywood Military Hobbies�. I was told that virtually everything in the shop was fake/reproduction or altered. That he had original makers in Germany and Austria working for him creating high grade fakes. And that among the many he defrauded he made some powerful enemies. Regards, FP

Fred, I was also in Steele`s shop in Hollywood in the late 60`s, and he was known (to many local collectors) as a huckster who peddled repros and fantasies from Germany and Austria. The bogus items were often interspersed with real artifacts as well, which were plentiful at the time. This was also the time frame when Atwood was busy importing his parts/reproduction pieces. It caused many of us to hesitate in our blade collecting at that time, not knowing what was next!
By the way, do you remember Col. Clarence Stewart, who made many of the local gun shows before the 'Great Western' existed? I found his picture in Gerhard Frey`s book >Deutschlands Auspl�ndering< on page 217, with an early dagger ensemble.

As a sidebar, I was also in the Rudolf Souval firm in Vienna in 1970, where they were reproducing virtually all Third Reich medals, in quantity. I don`t remember taking any photos, but wish that I had!

Hi Ace,
I remember Col. Stewart. Yes, he used to set up at many of the smaller shows in Los Angeles.
I can tell you this about the old Colonel. All his daggers were straight. Because he picked most of them up from the factories. I believe he told me he was with Patton, but I'm not sure.
I just don't remember who ended with the collection after his passing? Since he was a Colonel he could, and did, send a large ammount home in crates! -Wagner-

On one of Russian forums has seen here these photos. The owner convinses, that it is the original. He is mistaken?

2

3

4

This one appears to be an original, at least from what I can tell from the pictures.

If this is a repro its one of the best I have seen.

What about the trademark on this piece?

It has been my observation that pre-1945 swords did not use the fully etched 1936 TM except on Luft swords, where, presumable, due to the fuller, it would have been easier to etch the tM as opposed to stamping it. Post war Eickhorn production used the fully etched 1936 TM quite often, on swords such as the navy saber, and various daggers, such as hirschfangers, navy daggers, and other post war items. Is it generally believed that the Luft generals sabers with this tm are original? Joe S