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Well my two cents: If you don't like him don't deal with him there are plenty more out there.I have not bought from him but not because i didn't think he was fair.So i think the whole thing is just way too far off track.When you deal with people there are some that just don't click best to just move on. When no one buys anymore from some one than it pretty much speaks for it self. I AM not saying don't buy from craig i am just saying if you don't like someone spend your money else where .MY two cents
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I started collecting thirty plus years ago and was fortunate enough to hook up with a dealer (I traveled with my Father to local Gun Shows as he delt in Customized 45 Gold Cup Pistols) who had a lifetime guarantee. I had bought a U-Boat badge from him and eleven years later I was showing off my medals to him and he noticed the badge and asked "Where did you get this one?" I said I got it from him a while back and he very carefully studied it and finally asked what I had paid for it. I told him and he studied the badge a bit longer and then threw it in a box of repros he kept for the re-enactors. He then told me to pick out something worth what the U-Boat badge would have been worth currently and explained that he had sold me a copy. At the time he sold it, he thought it was real. The thing that impressed me was his honesty. He could have said it was a nice badge and let it go, but as he had learned more, he passed that knowledge to me-thus I learned more. It was a great copy that would probable fool me even today. He is no longer a dealer but he still finds artifacts and calls me. The point I'm trying to make echos the jest of some of the other members. Deal with people you trust. I might add that it helps to be friends with the dealer but also remember that some of these people make their living selling artifacts. This stuff is hard to come by and I would pay 'a reasonable amount more' in order to insure that what you buy is real. If you think it is too much, pass on it. I have noted Craig's web site as I saw some nice artifacts offered for sale. I though I'd learn something more about the Himmler Dagger, could we get back to that? Thanks
Scott Hatfield
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Unfamiliar territory for me as I have never had to return anything (yet).
Lifetime guarantee? I would expect any decent dealer to take an item back and give a full refund (less say postage fees)if at at any future point the item was found to be a fake.
Re-Stocking fees? I suppose a dealer, or in fact anyone, would be within their rights to apply a reasonable fee for taking an item back after the initial inspection period because the buyer did not like the the item.
Hope I never have the experience and I would never have thought one of Craig's pieces would be subject to this discussion, easy for me to say though as I have only ever had good dealings with him.
Two bob's worth
Nolan
Scott, that's a nice story.
The older I get the better I was!
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After all these years I really cannot believe there are BUYERS that are willing to put this much trust In any dealer...Not specifically Craig but all of them.
This is also not a comment on this particular deal but Guys you really have to know what your doing,You wouldn't Trust a Car dealer this much,Hell You even get a few Opinions from your Doctors so why put so much Blind Faith in these guys...I have said it many times but these guys are Relying WAY to much on their return policies.
Larry....You really could do quite well with the restocking fees...if your the Dealer...Buy the dagger for $3K...sell it for $5K...charge the restocking fee when returned...make the Grand and still sell the dagger later for may the same $5k and still make the Profit....so maybe you would not have to work to hard in knowing the items and if they are right or not.
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Gentlemen- I don't have a dog in this fight and don't give a tinker's damn about Craig Gottlieb, but I must make a simple observation regarding Mr.Howard Julian-Harvey. Sir, your spelling and grammar is atrocious. If you are, indeed, an attorney, you lack the writing skill to fight a parking ticket. Please tell us you're kidding 
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what aint you got no briggen up boy? I thought this thread was about the Himmler dagger and all the whiners that think the prices are too high, but fail to understand the market place. Just like the nice civil war items, VERY hard to find and you will PAY dearly for a nice item. Another example: firearms in general, WW2 Lugers have gone thru the roof, so what if you like them pony up the cash or get out! Collectors and dealers set the market place. If collectors would not pay the prices the dealers would not say around for long. Boo hooo should a would'a could'a but never put you $ where your mouth is. Maybe we should have bought the Himmer in 1985 for 5k and bragged about selling them for 20k today, THEN would you complain?   
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Kingtiger....I do believe you have this letter or Gottlieb would not be writing this;
"And now that both sides have been stated clearly, I suggest that the forum moderator close this thread. It is pointless to continue."
Sepp
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If Kingtiger post his letter Harvey, you better get your fork and knife ready to eat these words you wrote. Kingtiger DOES NOT LIE!!
Harvey wrote:
"I would therefore advise anyone with greivences who are compelled to air them publicly, to do so based not on hearsay and rumour but on the physical burden of substantiable proof ....To do so without this evidence is to slander the individual. Allegations made in this vain leave those making them open to the laws of libel,which if the plaintiff decides to persue, can be, to say the least, costly.....Put simply, either put up or shut up!"
Sepp
GDC 0292 Gold
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quote: Originally posted by DD: Gentlemen- I don't have a dog in this fight and don't give a tinker's damn about Craig Gottlieb, but I must make a simple observation regarding Mr.Howard Julian-Harvey. Sir, your spelling and grammar are atrocious. If you are, indeed, an attorney, you lack the writing skill to fight a parking ticket. Please tell us you're kidding
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ha ha,,imagine all the emails privately flying around back and forth!
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I juice lorve thys foorum!
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On a well known (to some)UK Dealers update.. Art deco SS Boker and a Klass...how about $6000?????? each average condition indeed some would grade them Ex+ max....???? Seiler (Yank in UK) 
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I would hope that if any lawyers want to get involved they do so now or zip it up. I have the letter and it outlines the whole sordid tale.
My mother is not expected to live much longer and I am on my way to be with her. The rest of my family do not know where this letter is and I WILL post it as soon as I get this family sadness behind me.
Best regards to the true believers and to those who don't believe....prepare to eat crow!
Mark
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Mark, I'm sorry to hear of your family situation.
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Mark -
I went through the same thing a few years ago .... You have my sincere sympathy and prayers -
Gordon
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Kingtiger-
Hope all this b.s. during a tough time hasnt been too much of a distraction to you from what is really important.
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Dear Mark,(Kingtiger).......May I also offer my sympathy at what must be a difficult time for you.......As a long time member of this forum (7years). I have, as we all have, witnessed over the years, a number of heated exchanges between various members. These exchanges (often very ammusing)are usually little more than a chance for one member to vent a little hot air about another member/dealer, and are over almost as soon as they have begun.....But occasionally statements of fact are made that have the very real potentcial to cause damage to the reputation and credibility of those to which they are directed......Often that individuall or institution believing themselves wronged will, in order to maintain their good name, seek a legal solution and embark on an ill advised and usually very costly journey to this end.....As a long time collector of nazi regalia and a member of this forum I occasionally feel compelled to comment, and do so without bias. All the views and oppinions I have expressed thus far on this matter have been statements of fact and should be seen as such....I now, for what it's worth offer you both (Craig and Mark)some simple (and free!)advice....Talk to each other IN PRIVATE and make no more of it.....P.S. A few words about my grammar.... I usually prepair statements in the rough, then my secretary "grooms" and corrects them for public consumption.As my interest in this field of collecting is not widely known by many, this, the British side of the Atlantic, (the laughable but potentcially damageing suggestion of neo nazi sympathy exists!)you all get the typed "super fast" rough version warts and all!...Oh and by the way I don't do parking tickets!...Kind regards to you all.
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Howard, Although I appreciate your counsel, I feel somewhat dragged thru the mud on this one. Craig did, in absolute fact, write me explaining how he faked a high end SS full Rohm dagger for the expressed purpose of deceiving the seller's grandfather who obtained it from the German Colonel, he has also changed parts on an SA (Eugen Scheidt)I sold him and bought back and then brushed me (a very long term customer who entrusted him with many costly transactions ranging from helmets to daggers, award documents, cuff titles and SS Honor Ring examples) aside with an absolutely insulting no win solution when I very politely initially inquired how would the "lifetime guarantee" return policy work in actual fact.
He chose this path of publishing alleged e-mails and I did rise to the bait. His biggest problem now is that he knows I have this letter he does not want made public.
I will accept a public apology from the dealer, nothing less. The letter I have is worth much more than that to him. The dagger I bought from him was purchased at a bar in Miami and some may recall that he told us of the find as he bought it wearing flip flop sandals and sold it to me the next day. That thread MAY still be here somewhere.
Kind regards to all for the kindness towards my current situation with my mom.
Mark
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"Dear Mark,(Kingtiger).......May I also offer my sympathy at what must be a difficult time for you.......As a long time member of this forum (7years)."
Is the sympathy because he has been a long time member of this forum?. Seems like a back handed comment. JMHO.
Mark, I hope you see better times.
Jim
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quote: Originally posted by LH 600: Do someone have any opinions of this one ? Just wonder  http://www.craiggottlieb.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=2433...+Himmler+Inscription
Hello members of GDF. I quote my self to get up the topic of this tread. I think the tread are going to long and the best is to take care and discuss the dagger it self. ( sold now anyway ) I started the tread about this knife , and the tread flyes away with other disussions. Hope we on this great forum GDF understand this and shut up and discuss German Daggers instead of making thing go private. I hope members understand my meanings. Best Regards LH 600
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LH 600:
You are correct, sir.
I don't believe that anyone has raised an issue with its authenticity, only concerns about the high price. When you consider that the another, but better shape, Himmler recently was offered by Paul Hogle at 21k (maybe sold for that, maybe sold for a little less), I am not sure if the price that Craig had on his site was too far out of line.
Rare and sought after items are going up. Added to this is the decline in value of the US$ compared to other currencies, only means that the world price is not rising as fast as you think. Welcome to the world of currency inflation / deflation.
Three years ago, I paid $10k US for a Himmler, but that came to 13k in Canadian $. If it sold today, it would sell for about 17-20k on a retail site, but that would only be a little more than 17-20k in C$. You see a 100% price inflation (10k to 20k), I see 50% (13k to 20k).
It is even more pronounced when you compare to Euros or other world currencies. Now you see why prices are going up dramatically locally, but seem cheap for those living in other lands.
Sorry it this comes across as a lecture... it is not intended as such.
John
Always looking for Eickhorns and etched bayonets.
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Mark,
Just a word of support during this difficult time.
-serge-
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quote: Originally posted by JohnZ:
LH 600:
You are correct, sir.
I don't believe that anyone has raised an issue with its authenticity, only concerns about the high price. When you consider that the another, but better shape, Himmler recently was offered by Paul Hogle at 21k (maybe sold for that, maybe sold for a little less), I am not sure if the price that Craig had on his site was too far out of line.
Rare and sought after items are going up. Added to this is the decline in value of the US$ compared to other currencies, only means that the world price is not rising as fast as you think. Welcome to the world of currency inflation / deflation.
Three years ago, I paid $10k US for a Himmler, but that came to 13k in Canadian $. If it sold today, it would sell for about 17-20k on a retail site, but that would only be a little more than 17-20k in C$. You see a 100% price inflation (10k to 20k), I see 50% (13k to 20k).
It is even more pronounced when you compare to Euros or other world currencies. Now you see why prices are going up dramatically locally, but seem cheap for those living in other lands.
Sorry it this comes across as a lecture... it is not intended as such.
John
Many good points you have listed John Z. I notice near all types of SS daggers are priced high . Like you say some year ago many daggers cost near the half. the prices are on the way up and the interest of good quality ss daggers,are like fresh bread in the store My collection of SS is still growing , but i dont have the Himmler yet Best Regards Lh 600
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I also don't see any problems with the dagger in question, and the price seems to be in the ballpark. I'd agree that a lot of the seemingly increase in price (stated in USD) is based on the rapid decrease of USD value vs other currencies, for us in Norway the USD is 20% less than 6-12months ago.. (and LH 600 - Now is the time to buy the Himmler, they are dirt-cheap  compared to 6-12 months ago when they were selling at 14-16K) Cheers,
Tor-Helge
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I now Tor helge But i have used 12 K last months in daggers you now. I dont make dollars either ..but if a great Himmler showns up , maybee im crazy to buy it . Paul H have a nice one resently , but sold after some days only. That was a fine one !! Daggers is only daggers and they will always be for sales. If you have the money ready, youre on the safe side..
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Mark, My best to you and your family during this difficult time. I lost my mother a few years ago so I know what you're going through. Best, Erich
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quote: Originally posted by Howard Julian-Harvey:
Dear Mark,(Kingtiger).......May I also offer my sympathy at what must be a difficult time for you.......As a long time member of this forum (7years). I have, as we all have, witnessed over the years, a number of heated exchanges between various members. These exchanges (often very ammusing)are usually little more than a chance for one member to vent a little hot air about another member/dealer, and are over almost as soon as they have begun.....But occasionally statements of fact are made that have the very real potentcial to cause damage to the reputation and credibility of those to which they are directed......Often that individuall or institution believing themselves wronged will, in order to maintain their good name, seek a legal solution and embark on an ill advised and usually very costly journey to this end.....As a long time collector of nazi regalia and a member of this forum I occasionally feel compelled to comment, and do so without bias. All the views and oppinions I have expressed thus far on this matter have been statements of fact and should be seen as such....I now, for what it's worth offer you both (Craig and Mark)some simple (and free!)advice....Talk to each other IN PRIVATE and make no more of it.....P.S. A few words about my grammar.... I usually prepair statements in the rough, then my secretary "grooms" and corrects them for public consumption.As my interest in this field of collecting is not widely known by many, this, the British side of the Atlantic, (the laughable but potentcially damageing suggestion of neo nazi sympathy exists!)you all get the typed "super fast" rough version warts and all!...Oh and by the way I don't do parking tickets!...Kind regards to you all.
Hello mate, your profile gives you as being registered just a few weeks ago with 14 posts to your credit. If you were formerly known by another name and have recently re registered it might help the rest of us figure out your above statement that you have been here for 7 years, just curious? Nolan
The older I get the better I was!
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quote: I now, for what it's worth offer you both (Craig and Mark)some simple (and free!)advice....Talk to each other IN PRIVATE and make no more of it.....
As an unbiased observer I have the following comments to make which i hope will keep this in perspective. It would seem to me that the only person that would benefit from this advice is Craig Gottlieb. I have to say that I am curious to understand what interest you may have in protecting this persons reputation if they have done what is alleged? What has been alleged if true is at best highly unethical & at worst might be considered fraudulent & quite possibly criminal. Without substantiation it is merely hearsay. Hearsay is not evidence but can be very damaging! Leave off the "Craig bashing" unless you have something other than anecdotal comments & 3rd party references. Kingtiger has nothing to gain by levelling such a serious accusation unless it can be proved for to do so would only raise questions about his own integrity. On the subject of dealer integrity. It should not be a case of "buyer beware" when purchasing anything from someone who has set themselves up as an expert trader in anything, whether that may be art,antique furniture, or militaria! The whole point being that a novice or aspiring collector should be able to buy with confidence. That gentlemen would be a very short list!
War is when your government tells you who the enemy is.
Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.
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Thanks,
Brian
Always looking for Troop Signed WW2 Flags!
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I'm sorry b_vanfossen . . . but are you saying you think the Himmler dagger which started this thread is a "fake" or the one on Bill Shea's site that Eric posted? If it is the rupturedduck example . . . what do you see that causes you to believe it is a reproduction? Does anyone else see something about it that makes them think it is a fake? ~ Ian
GDC Gold Badge #0204
"Even if such objects cannot change the soul of man, at least they give him an identity." - Heinrich Himmler
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I'm not seeing any fakes here ! It is much to easy to call an artifact being fake without any proof. Someone needs to bring some evidence to sustain such claim, if one wants to be taken seriously. What are your crudential Vanfossen ? I don't wish to sound impolite but do you collect at all or are just a spectator ? As I've said, you need to sustain your claim.
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I wish to be impolite, Obviously B.Vanfossen is ignorant of what a good Himmer vs a bad one is. Its better to listen and learn before looking VERY silly. 
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Certainly not the one on Bill,s site. Nor would you catch Wittmann offering a "so called fake"!!! So he is just "sounding off" in ignorance IMO Seiler (Yank in UK)
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I'm very sorry. I got my threads mixed up as I had many open.... My post about a fake was not to be in this thread!!
Thanks,
Brian
Always looking for Troop Signed WW2 Flags!
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Gottlieb's Reference Himmler is Beautful... I am only human and I made a mistake. By no means did I mean to say that that was a fake. I simply got my threads mixed up by jumping back and forth reading different threads. My comment was meant for this thread: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/728099473/m/1640074465
Thanks,
Brian
Always looking for Troop Signed WW2 Flags!
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No problem Vanfossen, We are all humans and we are all here to help each others.
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Thanks Pat. I find it a little humorous now... 
Thanks,
Brian
Always looking for Troop Signed WW2 Flags!
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quote: Originally posted by b_vanfossen:
I'm very sorry. I got my threads mixed up as I had many open.... My post about a fake was not to be in this thread!!
He he , I bet you was the kid that brought home the wrong stuff when your mum sent you shopping .] At least you see the funny side, no problems on here, we all have a sense of humour Nolan
The older I get the better I was!
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