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OP
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Blair,
The best way to show a Rohm is a square-on shot of the whole blade and crossguard. You'd get a lot more comments.
Dave
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OP
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Dave: You are correct sir! But alas it is just old news… http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/477091573/...183052517#2183052517 I was just the knocking “updated code of conduct” out of the way! I thought the post - Is there a list of what makers made Rohm Daggers & Neal Jackson (which followed) was a lot more fun! But yes the distance & size of the makers mark from the cross guards are valuable clues as to real or fake Rohms! John Gold GDC#o238
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What is the difference in rarity & price between SA full Rohms & SS full Rohms? Also how to they compare to the SS Himmler in rarity & price? I've seen these for sale, but never seen these question discussed.
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Brian,
Do a little research and report back to us. Check out the dealer sites.
Dave
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All I can get from dealer sites is price - this does not always translate into rarity. I've seen SA Rohms for $4000-$8000, SS Rohms & Himmler ss daggers seem to go for $12,000 to $15,000 or so. I'm just wondering if this means the SS Rohm is twice as rare as the SA Rohm. Sorry if I offended the experts by asking this question. "Go look it up for yourself" - I'm not sure where to look to answer this question other than this forum.
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Brian..I think Dave just wasnt sure about the Sa prices(im sure he has the numbers on the SS), so wanted you to check and report back.Imho the Rohms are way tougher to find than the Himmlers and are priced above the Himmlers, im thinking Himmlers 10-15 grand and Rohms 15-25 grand, im talking SS. The Sa Rohms im guessing 3-5 grand.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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That's what I was thinking - the SS Rohms seem to be rarer than the Himmler SS. I guess I could rephrase the question. If you only wanted one full Rohm dagger in your collection, would you be happy with the SA Rohm, or would you save up for the SS Rohm based on its rarity? The Rohms have a historical "kick" for me that the regular SAs & SSs don't seem to have.
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To me hands down the SS Rohm, lot more money but a lot tougher to find.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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even better yet one of the SS models that were for the school sports award (a good one).
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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I know I know im off the subject (Rohm Daggers) and its not a production piece but talk about tough to find.
Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. And remember the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
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Brian, You should realise that this part of the hobby is e very dangerous minefield... 20 years ago everyone agreed that only 200 real SS Himmlers were produced, now some people believe that up to 10000 real ones were made. In my opinion this evolution is purely the result of the existance of too many almost perfect copies. With SS and SA full Röhms the problems are identical: probably over 10 perfect copies exist for every real one... You should also read this topic: http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/160093573/m/2280086834So realise that your "historical kick" has a big chance not to be one of "Germany 1933-34".  Best greetings, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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Herman, hold on here ....  20 years ago, many people were convinced that the number of 200 daggers was much to low. Few reference books which got into it that deep were printed since the first bunch in the 1970's early 1980's so the info was not publshed. With the advent of the Internet, info got around much faster. You are welcome to your opinion, but I can say I was there 20 years ago and the 200 number was no longer thought to be true. As for your opinion that there are 10 perfect copies of Rohms for each real one, please show us some first hand proof. Dave
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Dave, I base my opinions on what I see happening in the today market, on some simple mathematics and on what I hear from several collectors that were there 20 years ago. I do not mind if you disagree with me and I would be very happy if you can proof the opposite... By the way, when people are telling me on this forum that they believe that 10000 real SS Himmlers were made... I also would like to see proof of that... maybe one day... Best greetings, Herman
You never have enough HJ-knifes!
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I'll have to admit having many of the same doubts that Herman states.  There seem to be a lot of SA Rohms, SS Rohms, and SS Himmlers floating around for some reason and I wonder why.  I don't have any statistics to back me up, but have a gut feeling. I never really got into SA Rohms for that reason. Seemed to be too many of them, for some odd reason. The SA/SS Rohm is problematic to me for the same reason. Would anyone, let alone the number we see floating around today, have been so reluctant to "erase" the Rohm that they didn't harbor any fear of reprisal by authorities? Sure seems like even the SA personnel would have done so with only a VERY small number of people NOT following orders and keeping the Rohm name intact. The SS is another story entirely to me. Would any SS man, let alone the number that we see today, have refused to obey orders and erase Rohm's name? Maybe a non-conformist here and there amongst a group of Conformists? Maybe, but not the numbers I see floating around. Very strange to me. SS Himmler numbers AND resultant high cost can be laid at the feet of those that have worked so hard to market this type (scarce-- maybe, but not rare) dagger. Coupled with that desire of people to own something "black and sinister", prices jumped over the moon with the cow. Me thinks I'll stick to Armys. Much less complicated.
" Always interested in Aluminum fitted, rare, and superbly conditioned Army daggers." DJ Roach
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If there are so many fake Rohms & Himmlers around - is there any way to safely buy them? Are purchases from the well-known & established dealers OK or are even they fooled by the "perfect fakes"? I guess if you were a gambler, a used SA Rohm would be more likely to be real than a perfect SA or SS.
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After reading the above mentioned thread I think I am going to stay away from Rohms, Himmlers & Feldhernhalles!
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I agree with Brian to stay away from full Rohm and Himmler Too risky and too costly.
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AH, just to stirr it up, Tom Johnson has a Ground Rohm Haenel, with the dedication re-etched?! Now, explain that one to me:
SA Ground/Re-Etched Röhm Dagger. Haenel (arrow) TM. This unique dagger, recently obtained in Germany, features a completely ground blade, to include portions of the trademark, which has had the Röhm period inscription re-etched. Re- etched inscription is correctly placed on the blade; however, the strokes of the Sutterlin script are not as broad or deep as found on untouched, original inscriptions. Apparently, the original owner, for whatever reason, wanted to restore the dagger to its original state and, possibly, had Haenel re-etch the blade since the company was one of the officially-sanctioned Röhm dagger manufacturers. Nickel-silver hilt fittings show light surface wear/age patina, with reverse lower crossguard group marked, “Th” (Thuringen). Medium brown oak-grained wood grip shows only light surface wear, with no cracks or chips, and is complete with silver grip eagle and SA insert properly inset. Polished blade grades excellent, showing surface wear/runner marks and the aforementioned grinding & re-etching. Deeply-etched motto retains approximately 80% of its black background darkening. Dent-free, steel scabbard retains approximately 98% of its original brown anodization and most of the factory-protective lacquer. Early plated scabbard fittings show light surface wear/age patina, with one faint dent to the bottom of the lower ball. Dagger is complete with original brown leather hanger with early nickel-silver clip and matching brown leather belt loop. Unique dagger that could prove to be an interesting research project. Exc+ $995.00 (19678)
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quote: Originally posted by vintagetimenow:
AH, just to stirr it up, Tom Johnson has a Ground Rohm Haenel, with the dedication re-etched?! Now, explain that one to me:
SA Ground/Re-Etched Röhm Dagger. Haenel (arrow) TM. This unique dagger, recently obtained in Germany, features a completely ground blade, to include portions of the trademark, which has had the Röhm period inscription re-etched. Re- etched inscription is correctly placed on the blade; however, the strokes of the Sutterlin script are not as broad or deep as found on untouched, original inscriptions. Apparently, the original owner, for whatever reason, wanted to restore the dagger to its original state and, possibly, had Haenel re-etch the blade since the company was one of the officially-sanctioned Röhm dagger manufacturers. Nickel-silver hilt fittings show light surface wear/age patina, with reverse lower crossguard group marked, “Th” (Thuringen). Medium brown oak-grained wood grip shows only light surface wear, with no cracks or chips, and is complete with silver grip eagle and SA insert properly inset. Polished blade grades excellent, showing surface wear/runner marks and the aforementioned grinding & re-etching. Deeply-etched motto retains approximately 80% of its black background darkening. Dent-free, steel scabbard retains approximately 98% of its original brown anodization and most of the factory-protective lacquer. Early plated scabbard fittings show light surface wear/age patina, with one faint dent to the bottom of the lower ball. Dagger is complete with original brown leather hanger with early nickel-silver clip and matching brown leather belt loop. Unique dagger that could prove to be an interesting research project. Exc+ $995.00 (19678)
Sounds pretty thin to me. The inscription had been ordered removed, what SA mann in his right mind (considering the knives were out) would have this done? Nice story i guess but personally i would be shelling out my $$$ for it...
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Hi there is a safe was to buy SA or SS Rohms. Do not purchase mint, perfect unbellished examples. How many mint Rohm bladed daggers could possibly exist?Its tough enough to find mint early SA. I sold a beautiful Eichkorn SA Rohm back in 1996 at the Max for $1000.00 and I had to shop it around(mint ones were $2500.00 to $3000.00). Both Toms turned it down but stated that it was good. Blade had a lot of darkening but it was a full and deep inscription that was obviously original and not done overtop of the wear.No sharpening. Other than this dagger was near perfect. Nice tiger striped handle. I would assume that values on these have increased as people can buy with the knowledge that it is an authentic and period Rohm. cheers, Ryan S
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quote: Originally posted by vintagetimenow:
AH, just to stirr it up, Tom Johnson has a Ground Rohm Haenel, with the dedication re-etched?! Now, explain that one to me:
It's a heretofore unknown SA sub-type, the Ground Haenel Rohm! I think the proper question, instead of why whould an SA man have his dagger re-inscribed, would be why would the factory do it? The SA men always were a unruly, rebellious bunch and many within the ranks took the events of the Night of the Long Knives very badly. I think that explains why you see quite a few (but certainly not all, not by a long shot) Full Rohms out there. But, why would a factory such as Haenel, for what could only have been a few Reichsmarks, risk a lucrative dagger contract, let alone an even more lucrative firearms contract in the future, to re-inscribe a dagger with a "traitorus" inscription? It could have been done surreptitiously, by an employee on third shift I guess, but one would think by then that the template would have been destroyed. To me, it stands to reason that it would have been easier for the offending SA man to just ignore the order and not grind the dagger, than to grind it off, then risk detection and include a few more people to have it re-inscribed at a factory. I'm just a regular guy, but it just doesn't add up to me.
"The mission of this Allied Force was fulfilled at 0241, local time, May 7th, 1945," Dwight D. Eisenhower
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"The mission of this Allied Force was fulfilled at 0241, local time, May 7th, 1945," Dwight D. Eisenhower
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