UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Rarest SS or Marine SA ????

Hi everyone

Just a food for thought question. On a scale of 1 to 10. 10 being the rarest where would you put the basic 1933 pat SS and where would you put the Marine SA. I'm assumeing the marine is much rarer so why would it not sell for higher prices than it does?

All the best

Ross

http://ross-the-jeweller.spaces.live.com

The problem with your question is that there is much controversy over what a Marine SA is. Many regular SA's were post-war plated to look like period pieces. At least one period source shows Marine SA's with black grips and scabbards and no plating. As far as I know there are no period orders regarding Marine SA's so the originality of all of them is somewhat suspect. Obviously there are many, many more SS EM33's, but in equal condition the SS is more desireable and easier to sell.

There is more to value than rarity.The EM SS is not quite as common as dirt but at least sand.Its the demand for them.Marine SA are iffy,who knowa what or when about them and yet cost pretty good chunk of change.Take for instance my 1966 metropolitan panzer MK4 der snailwagon.They only made six of them and had to give 4 of them away to get people in the showroom .Yet my friend insist his Mercedes 300 SL with spare factory racing engine is worth more.It just does'nt make sense.

How about a chained SS verus a chained NSKK Marine.
Which would be worth more ?

Same deal.A plain chained NSKK is rarer than a Chained SS so that makes a Marine Chained NSKK super rare.But who knows when they were plated and so on.The Marine NSKK removed a stalled tractor loaded with submarine props off a strategic roadway .But the SS what did they ever do really,Hitlers bodyguard,Big Deal.To answer your question a chained SS is worth much more than a Marine NSKK and a NSKK is rarer marine or not,Its the demand plain and simple. IMO

Your right. The SS is more common, EMs and
chained. As a collector I would think that
if both piece's are original and equal in cond. I think the NSKK Marine is worth more.
The big guy's seem to think so.
A SS dagger might sell easier or faster. But I hope to a true collector, the more rare of the two would be worth more. IMHO.

Chained SA and NSKK dont make as much as the much commoner 36 SS Go figure you are paying for the notoriety the SA were the original thugs whilst the SS were the professional thugs of the TR

What big time dealer has a chained NSKK or Marine for 8 to 12 grand?

WOW. the last chained SS I saw was 5500. not 8 to 12 thousand, and the last real chained NSKK Marine that I know of was listed for 7,850 and sold.
As we all know, real ones ARE very rare.
BTW.
That dagger was listed in #95- fall 2002 catolog.
by Johnson's Militaria.
Also The Big Guy's reference only meant the top people in the field.

I think you can liken buying a SS dagger to buying an average house in a resort town. Way over priced for what it is. And deallers are like realestate agents. They hype it up when they are selling but when buying the same thing off you they run it down and give you sweet FA.

Apologies for bringing up an old thread, but with a fist full of dollars can buy you an SS dagger all day, every day. IMO, you will wait in line for a long, long time to get a "real" SA Marine (gilt SA).

This subject is a minefield without any of the little "Achtung Minen" (sp?) signs.

I have seen 1) dark/black gripped SA/NSKK, 2) SA/NSK with a gold/bronze/copper wash/lacquer, and 3)SA/NSKK with copper plated fittings described as Marine SA/NSKK.

That these organizations existed is not in question, but what their daggers looked like is going to be debated for a while. I am hoping that color photos or regulations or something similar will surface to clarify it for us.

Dave

I agree with you Jeff.
How many chained nskk marine daggers have we seen,
much less offered for sale.

Randal.

If you look at my Avatar, that is one some consider a true SA Marine. Before the server crash at GDC about 5 years ago, there was another such Anton Wingen gilt SA with identical Gau. That tells one that an order was made, and one must look at makers and Gau's to determine originality. Was it Marine? Don't know, but Anton Wingen made gilt SA's perhaps on special order and it has been attributed to marine SA. I personally obtained mine from Lubeck, Germany many moons ago and have turned down stupid money offered. Real gilt and ones with phoney post-war wash are not the same.

At the last SOS, there was a nice early SA with golden "nicotine" patina. It was a $1200 SA in value, but he insisted it was a marine SA, and wanted $4500! Needless to say, it was unsold by the end of the show...

If you ever in doubt about whether it is nicotine, but the item in a plastic bag for a while, the open it up and sniff quickly. If you smoke yourself, get a non-smoking friend to do the sniffing..

Dave

You may contract cancer but the important thing is you will know if you have a real SA marine.

Zorro:

If you don't inhale, only the person you stab with the nicotine laced dagger will get cancer

John

Colorado,,,,may i ask what the Gau mark is?? DAVE H

Sure Dave - No - Nordost.

"No" was the same Gau and the same maker as the other "SA Marine" I saw. Evidence that these were produced in batches.

Like lot numbers on helmets, Maker's and Gau must be considered when judging the merits of an M33 that is gilt. Unfortunately, there is not enough out there to build a data base.

Real gilt ones will have genuine wear to high points that is not unlike that of a gilt badge.

Hi everyone,lack of a Gau and Makers mark put me of buying this NSKK chained dagger, nats

http://www.stan-the-man.tk/

#2
http://www.stan-the-man.tk/

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the information, I have the letter N on the cross guard of my NSKK marine.....DAVE H

Nats, I would'nt expect to see a gau mark on a 36 chained nskk. As for makers mark, the one's I have held in hand were rzm and code marked.

Randal