UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Leather scabbard SA - For Comments

Hi Guys,
I just got this one in the mail.
A vet acquired Anton Wingen Jr. SA, with leather covered scabbard.
All opinions welcome. -wagner-

Here's the reverse

Now. What do you SA wizards know about this? Was this officially approved? A "factory option"? "winter coat" or what?

looks wonderful- this was available for a premiun.Mike

I have never seen a leather scabbard on a normal SA. Great score! How did you find it?

I have an SA with a leather covered scabbard but it is much better looking and fitted like an honor dagger. I really think that one is someones attempt to pull a bayonet or police leather scabbard over that metal. The 'fit' is horrible. I can't believe that that is an issued option as Mike believes. Of course that is only my personal opinion.

Mark

Looks period done. I do assume that the original wearer had some skills (or let doing it) to avoid those (for him) ugly scratches and dents in the original color he has seen on his comrades daggers. Or his paint already was too ugly (for him) and he wanted to hide but didn´t want to paint as this would lead to the same situation soon.
IMO for sure no original manufacturer´s feature for a premium.
Just my thoughts.

That leather doesn't look like the kind of workmanship you would expect from the period!

Nolan

I agree with Wotan. I don't know if it was "factory" work but IMO period work. In the old days we used to see some unusual early SA dagger variations-grip eagles on the surface of the grip-no SA insert-even an all leather scabbard with metal fittings,etc. Most of these are in collections-sold to one collector to another.In those days SA daggers were cheap-most did not want more than one and there was no reason to mess with them. I believe there is one in the old R&L red reference book on daggers.

Looks period to me.One will never know who did it or why.Its nice to see something different about an SA other than a maker mark.If a NSKK can paint his scabbard why can't a SA man put leather on his.

I've seen them like this myself. They always reminded me of the combat covers on Japanese swords.

This is a period done example. I have seen these in the past from time to time, ten, fifteen years ago.

Mike W.

Houston your right! On page 36. "Standard pattern except is an early model with leather scovered scabbard. Metal fittings on dagger and scabbard appear to be solid nickel. Note: Seam down back of scabbard."
I couldn't find a photo or description anywhere else.
I'll post a couple of more photos of the scabbard. -wagner-

Well, it's always good to see new things and learn. I am glad to see this one. Just when I thought I had seen most every variation in SA's too. I never thought one would exist like that. Great thread.

Mark

So Mike, a SA man could order his scabbard from the factory if he paid a premium?
I can say this. It is a smooth dark brown quality leather.Applied professionally. Very snug to scabbard body. At a two foot distance you can't tell it's leather covered!
And how come we have not seen more of these "optional" versions? Were they only offered for a very short time?
Thanks for all you comments guys!

AnythingWW2. It was a sleeper at a private auction. A wild-quick-shoot-out between the last
2 bidders. (Me & another GDC member). I got lucky this time. -wagner-

I suspect that the leather covered scabbards may have been sold to SA Motor Stürme members, who logically could have used them to good advantage. Working around vehicles would be very hard on scabbards. I have seen both brown and black (NSKK) leather covered scabbards, but they are seldom seen anymore. Perhaps some pictures in wear may confirm this theory.

I too think it looks period, but if from the factory, wouldn't they apply it more like the leather an a DLV for example..with the fine. almost invisible seam? Or maybe that method only works with leather with a prominent grain. Even the high leader SA's have a very prominent grain to them, and are applied like the DLV leather. Maybe smooth leather has to have a sewn seam, like on the police bayonets and this example. Whatever it is, it looks good, and it's rare! John

Ace. I think you hit on something. You made me go digging deep in the safe. Looking for the special NSKK Staff dagger with dedicated crossguards with "black leather covered scabbard". I was going to eventually post it on a separate thread. So, I'm going to show one shot. Since we are talking about leather covered SA/NSKK scabbards. Give me a few minutes. -wagner-

This is a example of the type Dr. John is talking about. -wagner-

Yes Wagner, I bet that one does not have a seam, rather a fine paper thin edge glued down...

Nice one! John

That is correct Dr. John.
These are the ones we are more familiar with. -wagner-

Wagner, congratulations on a very nice NSKK dagger! Your dagger is exactly what I was alluding to, and has the engraved evidence right on the crossguards, despite the period 'regulations'. Does the group mark confirm/match the city of Hannover?

Well, finally we got a couple of guys, Ace, and Dr. John, who wnat a bit more. See what you guys think? How rare is it? -wagner-

A couple more.

Here are two NSKKs and one Naval SA with leather covered scabbards. The NSKKs have the fittings go over the leather, on the SA the leather is cut net to the fittings.

Beautiful inscription Wagner, and wonderful leather on them all Manfred and Wagner! Makes me want to get an SA high leader. Wonder if I could talk my accountant into using some retirement funds to add an SA High Leader to the portfolio, hehehehe

Thank You Ace and Dr. John. Once you have one of these leather daggers, the standard ones just look naked, but still wonderful. Manfred you got a killer grouping there. Complete with full rigs. Congrats. Your NSKK on the left looks like it has the same "select" tiger stripe grip as mine. -wagner-

Wagner: The tiger stripe gripped dagger is an Aesculap. When I first bought it the hadle had been painted with a dark brown paint which was rather brittle and started to flake off. After cleaning off all the remaining paint I refinished the handle to bring out its natural pattern.

I was looking through Johnsons "Collecting the edged weapons of the third reich" series the other night, and noticed another one, that has a leather scabbard that at least I thought looked like the first one mentioned here. The leather fit looks similar to me, but there is not any seam, at least not visible from the angle the dagger is photographed in.

It is on page 208 in volume 1.

Thanks HJ! I pulled out my Johnson Vol. 1, and it is the same smooth leather covered variation. Good eye!

Johnson states: "This unusual variation has a very fine grain brown leather scabbard which matches the color of the wood grip perfectly. The most probable explanation for this unusual type of SA scabbard is that it was a special order item. A different opinion of this piece is that it represents a very early SA dagger model which was eliminated through standardization".

Mike McAlvanah states: "This was available for a premium".

If this is the "full dress option" it must have raised the cost quite a bit higher due to the labor involved. It must also have been discontinued quite early. Due to the fact that they are found on only very early SA's.

Unless more information is fortcoming I am leaning toward a early extra cost option that was discontinued for reasons yet unknown. Not that it means much, but I have seen many of the
"Thin Pebble" "Honor Type" leather covered scabbards that you see in the above posts. But for me, this type is a "first". Also, of all the political daggers I have handled, this version is noticeably heavier. The leather is thick. -wagner-

Glad to be able to help instead of feeling stupid all the time I am here

By the way: You pulled out your JOHNSON?!?! Glad I wasnt around...

My un-educated, spontaneious (that was NOT the correct spelling, was it?) guess, is that it was an early option, for an extra cost, too.
A reasonable theory might be that it was too expensive and demanded too much time to produce. As you all know, there are other examples of leather-covered scabbards that stopped being produced, and were replaced by others.