UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum Tagged sa daggers value

Just need an idea for what i should be looking to pay for a truly mint sa dagger with tag.

Hi Roy, this one is $1,000 and includes part of the RZM tag on the belt loop as well as the tag on the grip.

If that helps.

Jim

If it's truly mint that is cheap RZM or not.

Nolan

I have seen truly mint unisued RZM selling around $2000 and up.

Sorry about that Roy,

I guess mine is $1,500.

Jim

is 3000-3500 completly out for dual marked trans piece?
thanks guys

Roy,

Everything is possible in today's world market.
Your tagged RZM may just as well be sold to someone living in Japan, Russia or anywhere else for that matter.
However, here in North America, the market is a bit different.
I recently bought a stone mint tagged RZM dagger which was then resold for $ 2400 USD. I personally thought that the price was much too high but that's the offer I had from a fellow collector and said, "Yes".
You can always ask whatever price you have in mind and then lower down the price if there are no callers.
Usually, the market will set the value for these on its own.
For exmaple, there are tons of SS EM's for sell at the moment and none are selling.
Why ? Just too expensive and they will eventually sell but NOT at the asking price.

quote:

is 3000-3500 completly out for dual marked trans piece?

Roy, I would say so but heck I am always surprised at what some people seem willing to pay. One thing for sure is that the more you pay for something the smaller your re-sale market will be. Something I always consider but that many apparently do not.

ok so what can we estimate the actual value of the paper rzm tag itself 500-1000?
knowing the value of say an eickhorn hang tag to be approaching 1k for use on the armys and lufts bayos, etc.

That is about what it would seem. A clean RZM is not going to fetch more than a clean "33" so it would seem to be around $800+
IMO disproportionately high in comparison to a tag. However, I do not think either could be considered value for money.

Example: Tagged heer being offered at 2K. Dagger is nice so top end $900-$1000 (in the real world) so $1000 seems to be in the tag.

Absurd? Yes, I believe so. Personally I would much rather put that kind of $$$ in to something else. But that is just my opinion.

Landser:

I have always been suspicious of tags. Unless they are the riveted RZM ones that would be impossible to remove and reapply, how can one tell that the thread tag on a dagger really came with the dagger and wasn't just placed on a nice piece to upgrade it?

That means that the dagger and tag should sell for no more than the sum of a dagger and a tag alone. No premiums should be paid.

John

I also am suspicious of tags, and while the tag on my dagger is not "riveted", it can not be removed from this dagger. I also noticed on this piece that the finish on the grip shows the affect of 60 years of this piece of paper being in contact with it. There are other attributes specific to the ink and printing on this tag that remove any doubt in my mind as to its originality. Not to mention the condition of the dagger is clearly from the showroom. Here are additional photos of one.

I would like opinions on what this one is worth as I will be selling it.

Jim

The pattern on the blade is the reflection of the metal frame of the gazeebo

Reverse.

At the lower edge at the fron and also at the back, that is the slight discoloration of age to that portion of the blade. I am told this can be easily "buffed" out. I do not do those things. But, other than the hanger buckle being corroded on one side. I have no other problems with the dagger.

Jim

Here is the hanger that looks to have been exposed all these years. The piece of paper I assume is part of the rzm tag is still in it.

There are two kinds of RZM political dagger tags that I trust. The first one is shown above by Jim. The second is shown below on an SS dagger riveted around the grip.

You have to be really careful with this second type as reproductions are being sold alone and already riveted to loose grips. The repro paper is white, shows little wear and the rivet is not the right type.

Unissued SA value? Depends on condition. "Unissued" presumes no wear apart from maybe runner marks, but peeling of the crossguards, rotting of zinc eagles, or surface rust from poor storage can reduce value. I would guess Jim's would be worth at least $1500, probably more.

Dave

Duh .... Forgot picture

A couple of thoughts:

The tags most commonly encountered on SA's seem to be the type on Jim's dagger, not the riveted ones - see them mostly on SS and NSKK dagger.

Roy,
If by "dual marked trans piece" you mean one with the maker's logo and the RZM mark, I think you've kicked things up a bit. If it is truly mint, tagged and un-dicked-with, while three grand is a lot of money, I don't think that's really out of line. Probably one of those things you'll be really glad you bought in a year or two.

Hope that helps,
Skip

super looking piece. but I don't "get" the hanger.

can anyone explain why this part - which wd. have been plated at the same time over the same base metal as the dagger parts themselves - has a dulled and apparently partly rusted clip and buckle?

just wartime quality-control inconsistences, the sort that leads to, say, cross-guard lifting? anyway, isn't it hard to say such a flawed part is original to a particular dagger?

and then, the hanger RING (only) is fine!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim W:
Here is the hanger that looks to have been exposed all these years. The piece of paper I assume is part of the rzm tag is still in it.

Hi Imicus. The clip on the hanger does raise interesting questions. Not only ab out its condition in relation to the rest of the dagger. But it also points out how we look at things.

For example, it would have been easy for me (or anyone) to exchange just the clip to avoid questions. But to me, that detracts from the turn key piece. But as collectors, we want that mint clip.

So, let me clarify that on the reverse of the clip, the rust and loss of plating are not there. My own speculation is that this was kept in a drawer where the dagger was physically between a couple of pairs of pants or something, but that side of the clip was on the wood bottom. That easily explains it.

I also could have removed the hanger because the value was in the dagger. But I didn't because that is the way it came.

As to value. I can tell you without hesitation that mine is worth exactly $1,500. That is what I sold it for. Pat's was worth over $2,000 because that is what he sold it for. And Roy's will be worth $3,000 if that is what he sells it for.

Because that is reality.

Jim

quote:

As to value. I can tell you without hesitation that mine is worth exactly $1,500. That is what I sold it for. Pat's was worth over $2,000 because that is what he sold it for. And Roy's will be worth $3,000 if that is what he sells it for.

Because that is reality.

Jim... would that be GAAP?

The hanger was a supplier item not made at the same place or by the same manufacturer as the dagger.

The hanger could be different basic metal and the another formula of plating metal may have been used. Same applies to actual plating process. The scabbard and clip fittings may have looked the same in the 1930's, but over 60 years later ....

Dave

Hi guys.

Dave, your knowledge on SS and SA is quite impressive. A real asset to the collecting community.

Skyline. You are absolutely correct. Specifically, I believe the transactions were covered by the Statement of the Financial Accounting Standards Board of FAS 48 "Revenue Recognition When Right of Return Exists".

Jim

This stuff is getting crazy, I sold a Mint Early SA at the SOS for $1500.00 and in turn it was resold the same day for $1750.00 No joke as I was next to the guy whom bought mine. Again it was PERFECT sa so it what anyone is willing to pay.

It is extremely difficult for me to understand why collectors are willing to pay big extra money for some card paper that someone forgot to remove from his dagger and then throw away....
You cannot even properly hold a tagged dagger in your hand... And they are not rare if you see the quantity that changes hands... We live in a strange world.!

Best greetings,

Herman

I disagree they are extremly rare id say 1 for every 1000 you may see a tag, i did not see one at last years max at the show in the bar or the hotel, I know a collector who has 285 sa's and not one of them tagged. Top premium pieces in anything armys ss's sa's lufts will always command a premium, and you will always make money also, example max show in pitt in 2001 Steve Tedds and I were looking at a mint voos army etched with ivory, Jason B wanted 5k for it, that seemed to be alot at the time now that same condition dagger brings 12000-14000,

I was not aware these were so abundant.

I have only seen two that I believe were original in the last 8 years. JR had one he sold for $1,000 several years ago, and, of course there is mine.

I am glad my buyer did not realize you could pick these up at every show and they are absolutely original and mint.

Jim

Roy have you been to the allentown gun show every now and then you will find one there you are in york im in Reading pa so you should have heard about the agriplex gun show in allentown i suggest that you go there you sometimes find them there, i say that they are few to come by and that they are very rare i have only ever seen 2 but yea roy its July 12th i go every time they have it they have one also in february

Hmmm.. just wondering, the piece mentioned and pictured above by Jim W has just surfaced here in the Czech Republic? Do you know know where it should be as I am suspicious that it may not be in the seller's possession. Thanks.

Jan

Sorry to have to post again, I could not edit the above post, but here's the link:

http://www.aukro.cz/item395151621_dyka_sa.html#photo

JAN

It's not there. Its in my hand at this moment in the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Houston Coates:
It's not there. Its in my hand at this moment in the USA.

Wow, it's amazing how many crooks there are. I have reported the auction and informed all bidders that the dagger is not in the person's posession and that it is fraud. Many thanks Houston, you have saved a person a lot of money.

Jan

Hi Jan.Good work.It is incredible what ,,people" devised.Salute from Czech.

I do think the double marked transitionals are worth more, especially with the bag. I know I wouldn't sell this one for $3500....especially since it's supposed to be in Tom's book...

maker mark

Damn John! thats just a fantastic sticker on the bag, not to detract from anything else here but just very nice.
Bret Van Sant

I have never owned an RZM SA but would certainly make an exception for this one though.

Congrats, just a fantastic dagger.

Pat:

You and about a thousand other GDC members would make an exception for this dagger too.

John

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