UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons Army, Navy, and Luftwaffe Forum Crossgrain?

Hi guys, what is crossgraining?
I realize that it is a scratch pattern that could be seen on the surface of the blade and that can help you distinguish a real blade from a fake but what are the catches here?

Any good links on this subject matter?

I found only two threads on this forum that were dedicated to crossgraining and they were not of much help for a newbie like myself.

OK, no links...
Can somebody brief me on the crossgrain subject?
What should it look like, etc.?
Just in brief words.

Thanks!

Axis,
Crossgrain is the pattern of tiny lines on a blade created from the final poishing process. Original crossgrain seems to form little "bands" along the blade edge. As far as I know it is a mystery as to how these "bands" were created. Modern polishing and buffing does not seem to have the same effect, thus making blades which are "fake" or have been buffed and "re-crossgrained" possible to detect with an experienced eye. Getting to know the look of original crossgrain takes time and the close examination of original pieces. I really don't know how I could describe it to you further.
Good hunting,
Johnny

^ Thanks, Johnny V.
I just examined my dagger and it seems to show nice crossgrain.
The crossgrain on my dagger (or at least what I think the crossgrain is) looks like even lines that are perpendicular to the blade length and that form clusters of some sort.
If you hold the blade at a certain angle, the crossgrain makes it look frosty and takes away its glossyness.

A couple of pics of crossgraining!

2

Mine is an officer's army dagger but the crossgraining looks similar to this.
It is a little bit finer, though.

Army dagger Crossgrain!

Nakida,
WOW those are some great pics. of crossgrain, it is often so hard to capture it with a camera. Great photography!
...And even better daggers!
Johnny

And there do some collectors exist (I am NOT one of them!) that do think crossgraining ("plistern" in german) is a NON wished effect during the manufacturing process of the blade ......
Wonderful conditioned baldes/daggers you show here, Nakida!
Regards,

... "just an SA dagger ... but nice crossgrain

... just some runner marks

Many thanks for kind words Wotan and Johnny!
Very nice blade Ivbaust!

Sam,

Never condemn a 2nd Luft or army blade for lack of crossgrain, some manf. nickle plated their blades and you will not find it on such blades, only polished steel blades will show it and even then the amount visible will vary, all down to the final polishing.

Nolan

^ This is very interesting.

Like many early daggers, early Walther P-38 pistols had a high polish finish which took a fair amount of talent and effort to accomplish.

Circa 1942 in an effort to speed up the process, instead of trying to create a perfectly smooth surface like that seen on early guns. Workers at Walther instead applied what is called by some gun collectors as a �brush� finish. Wherein the machined surfaces have an evenly applied series of small parallel lines which effectively camouflage all or most of the small irregularities created by the manufacturing process.

While in some areas of dress weapon collecting Solingen makers were slower to make changes than on the military side of the equation. �Crossgraining� is not one of them. With makers adopting that particular finishing technique years ahead of the military, as a cheaper and faster way to get the products out the door and into the hands of prospective purchasers.

Some very nice examples !!! FP

When I first started collecting, one of the big-time experts and dealer gave me some advice about crossgraining. He indicated it is a mark of a quality early piece to have minimal crossgraing, no true blade craftsman would let one go without trying to get the graining out. He said crossgraining is way overrated and generally misunderstood by collectors. This was a guy who had the background and experience to say what he said.

Cross grain is the result of the size of grit used in the polishing compound. The grit used was still aggressive enough to remove metal instead of just polishing it. Visable cross grain is a level or two below a full brite polish that used a much finer rouge to buff the surface of the metal.

Fine, evenly applied cross grain was deemed acceptable enough without going to the further steps of finer polish. On blades and fittings that were to be plated the finish was taken to a higher level at the cost of being more labor intensive.

Tony

I've certainly noticed a difference in the coarsness of crossgrain on different manf. blades.
Eickhorn produce a high quality blade that looks 'smoother' than some others, that may be down to quality control being at a higher level than other manf. Whatever the reason for it I wager that when it was being done the polishers would have never thought it would be a talking point 70 years hence.

Nolan

I did state it several times before and cannot emphasize enough: "crossgrain" or "pliesten" (in german) was done for a very wished effect. Another name is "diamond effect". A nicely "gepliestete" (crossgrained) blade cannot be reached in appearance by any plated or buffed blade. Those plated and high gloss buffed blades do have a very ugly, licked look. The Klingenpliester was a seperate and seperately educated man. Pliesten for sure does not have to reveal any imperfections of the blade but gives the blade the final elegant luster. I have read somewhere that Pliesten is the KEY to a high capacity blade. There are several circumstances ("cold grinding" of the already hardened blade, the diameter of the wheel and something more) which is so effective to and necessary for an efficient blade.
Naturally, as everywhere, there are differences in quality so also in quality of crossgrain/pliesten especially later in the war but a professionally gepliestete/crossgrained blade for sure is at the top of blade making.
Otherwise we would like all these buffed blades
Regards,

To be sure a well �crossgrained� (or pleisten) type of polish on a blade is an indicator of skilled workers and specialized technology working together. And factors like the quality of the steel, extra polishing, and especially an overlay of plating - will affect the end result with the later removing or obscuring signs of earlier finishes.

What I think might be forgotten in this discussion is that a number of other period manufactured items to include relatively high volume low cost things like close combat and gravity knives (etc.), also had a �crossgrain� finish. The point being that �crossgrain� finishes were not particularly unique. And the cost/benefits of that less materials/labor intensive type of finishing are I think additional factors to be taken into consideration when looking at them as a group. FP

I suppose you could compare crossgrain with todays 'Satin' finish used on say a stainless steel kitchen bin as opposed to a highly polished one and Wotan is correct a subtley done one is lovely, specially a mint one.

Nolan