UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SA & NSKK Dagger Forum SA With Early Motto

Any one know how long the very early "Alles Fur Deutschland" motto was used on the standard SA dagger? And numbers produced.

If your talking about the early variation with the "A" varriant i believe they were made 1933-34. As to how many i am not sure but do know they are not very common.

Here is one...

Mark

pic 2

pic 3

pic 4

pic 5

pic 6

Any comments or questions are encouraged.

Mark

Is that a GR? I don't see much of the MM.

quote:

Originally posted by kingtiger:
Any comments or questions are encouraged.

Mark

Freaking nice I say !
The grip alone is a real beauty.

Very nice. I just bought the one on John's site. www.germanwarbooty.com It's a Pack {Ground Rohm} by all means check it out.

The one I have is a Pack (E P & S). What you are seeing is all that is left after the Rohm inscription was ground off, not by Pack as they would have only gotten the Rohm dedication and most likely left thier maker mark in my opinion.

Mark

Extremely nice and rare dagger Mark!
The grip is awesome, fantastic grain like most Pack daggers..
To find another example with the early motto variant in this condition must be almost impossible. This sweet ex Rohm tells a very interesting story for sure.

Many thanks for showing Mark!!

Sam,

One of the hardest and rarest SA varients to find. Most collections are missing this early small "A" version. Congrats Mark!

-Serge-

Great scores jodagger and Mark - congrats!!

Regards
Russell

kingtiger, thanks for nice pics.
I've got a question regarding the dagger. The form of the eagle. Is this dagger parts?
Regards, Andrey

Sokol, no this eagle is original to the grip as is the other one linked above. As you can see, they are both the same.

Mark

another view

quote:

Originally posted by kingtiger:
Any comments or questions are encouraged.

Mark

Great dagger.Did Eickhorn take the same motto on the first SA's ?

I think the very first SA daggers ever made were full Rohm's made by Pack or Eickhorn and presented by Rohm himself to loyal friends and fellow high officers of the SA. The one I have is a ground Rohm. The only difference I can see is the earliest ones had a different "pointy wing" eagle in the grip..then the design of the eagle changed and the early blade motto was quickly changed to the "U" instead of the "A". They are extremely rare in any configuration.

Mark

quote:

The only difference I can see is the earliest ones had a different "pointy wing" eagle in the grip..
Mark

Mark: that was my question. Never see this pattern of national emblem on SA first issue. Only M1929. That's why my theory is that it may be parts dagger with a later grip.
regards,
Andrey

I think that as the pointy eagles were depleted, the SA decided to use the more familiar Reich eagle on most everything. There were most likely more blades with the "A" than pointy eagles. The fact that two of the same eagles are on both daggers shown in this thread and that they both have the "A" variant would seem to lend credence to this opinion.
No one really knows as they are so very rarely seen in any configuration as I have stated above. In all my SA collecting, the one I own now is the only one I have ever personally seen anywhere. Other than this one, I have only seen pictures before.

Mark

the one that jodagger posted the link to is Gau marked,I always understood that the early "A" motto daggers should not have a Gau mark.
Can anybody confirm that.
I have turned down 2 early motto daggers because they were Gau marked,nats

I agree with Mark and would say that perhaps only one quarter or less of the known daggers with this early motto will have the pointed wing grip eagle and the others the type usually seen on standard early SA daggers.
It also is possible that some grips were period changed to conform to the standard pattern.
I can't imagine an early grip with the pointed wing eagle being so bad that some one changed it post war, unless it was totally destroyed. Especially when the rest of the dagger is in such good condition. That would be a very dumb thing to do. At least I would think that there would be an attempt to replace the newer type eagle in the new grip with the old eagle.
As far as the Gau stamp goes--who knows? -but it would not prevent me from buying one just because of that and nothing else.
IMO one must be careful when considering rejecting a piece with just ONE red flag. As I have said many times before-MOST bad pieces have SEVERAL red flags.

I still believe that the R�hm Christmas daggers were made earlier that 1933-34, because these daggers are different from the regular R�hms in many ways.
I add only one picture, because I have posted this "theory" before.

Best greetings,

Herman

Hi Stan. If you had the opportunity to purchase one of these with only a Gau mark as the red flag I would have jumped on it. Was the Gau mark the only reason you did not follow through with the purchase?
The providence of the one I have purchased is pretty good. Ex Bob Waitts collection and sold with certificate of authenticity from Brian Maederer. Thats good enough for me.