UBB.threads Forums Uniform & Accessories Medals & Badges of the Third Reich Forum COULD POST THIS ELSEWHERE BUT

I like it here. For you U-BOAT GUYS just out of the woodwork. As you may know the Canadaians where tasked to go up the coastline into Germany and take care of business thus allot of km msterial fell into thier hands.This stop watch case just showed up along with that compass I posted earlier in another thread it is a medium brass with a light hinge and a felt material inside.the eagle on front appears to be DRL.

the U-13 WAS COMMISSIONED 1935 SUNK 1940 26 SURVIVORS.

INSIDE VIEW

An outstanding piece of history Paul, do you know if U 13 survived the war ?

That's very cool.

Here is some info

I suspect this was found in an office at one of the port cities or towns taken by the Canadians in 44 would surely love to get a nice period stop-watch to go inside it but it is the outside the counts on this piece. I am buying out a long time collector who is going blind and obtaining some wonderfull things that have not seen the light of day for many years.

BTTT for all who may have missed it.

--dj--Joe

I remeber this post, very neat item! Has any more research been done on the case or this Uboat?

Fritziii

Nothing more to add on this any more info lost with the vets involved RIP

PAUL

Visit www.uboat.net for the best site on the subject

yes have had that sight linked for a couple years very informative.

I've seen a lot of these type of items coming from Eastern Europe since the 1990s. Without solid provenance I would be extremely suspicious of this item. The decoration and finish of the metal certainly looks more consistent with the constant flow of fantasy fake items from Europe than with original items I have seen. Watches are a favorite field for these fakers. The style of construction is also more typical of these sorts of fakes than with original presentation and souvenir type items which were usually of fine quality and engraved. Here is a similar fake:

http://daggers.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8763084286/m/6420080554

That is nothing akin to this item. It is as right as rain even a good faker could not put the 60 years of patina and make it in this fashion.And if you read the first post this has provinence as a CANADIAN VET bring back from the port areas.

PAUL

Awesome case!

Dear all,

Sorry, but this case is a fake! There are loads of these coming out of Bulgaria where they are made. This "funny looking" uboat is placed on alot of different items, like cigarette cases, watch cases. Often a bogus "U-XXX" is added.

Does this look like a KM eagle to you guys? The guy had a website with lots of different types of "Very rare" stuff related to this and that U boat Commander. Many of them had engraving, and in one case the fraudster had mispelled the name of the Uboat Commander!

I actually filed a fraud complaint to the FBI because of this guy in Bulgaria. He is still peddling this stuff on Ebay.

Regards

Hinrik Steinsson
Curator
Aviaiton and War History museum
Reykjavik
Iceland.

WHOA horsey this is not new is a proven vet bring back .The eagle does not have to be KM as it was meant to house a stop watch for sports events thus the DRL eagle. If you have items even close to this show them type manufacture patina . Coming out like this you are calling me a liar and I don't take to kindly to that so prove your case .

PAUL

Dear Paul,

It was absolutely not my intention to call you a lier!! I dont beleive I said so in my post?

I just wanted to warn you and others here about this "Uboat" stuff coming out of Bulgaria. This guy deals much in old watches and often takes old watches and adds bogus engraving making it a "U-boat" item. Here are photos to prove my case:

Nice old Pierce chronograph watch:



And the backside. Note the same silly looking U-boat, "U-126" "1941" and "Kplt Ernst Baner"



Correct name of U-126 Commander is: Ernst Bauer.

These are all over and not just U-Boat marked, there are others as well.

All came at once it seemed and there a flurry of them for a bit. Veterans horse trade and some buy items after the war.

Does that make you a liar? No.

This guy has been selling this stuff on website called www.goantiques.com but I would like to state that that is not his website. Here are some links:

http://www.goantiques.com/search/images.jsp?id=1000906

A box similar to yours:

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ww2-german-boat,766766.html

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ww2-german-boat,702317.html

Yet another "rare" with the silly looking Uboat:

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ww2-german-boat,702268.html

And another, this one with fancy laurels:

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ww2-german-boat,665652.html

more:

http://www.goantiques.com/detail,ww2-german-tin,631505.html

Compare these 3 “rare awared” watches:

http://www.kaleden.com/detail,rare-1939-german,865846.html

http://www.kaleden.com/detail,rare-1939-german,865845.html

http://www.kaleden.com/detail,rare-1939-german,865849.html

Question: Do you or anyone here think, that this one individual can have so many items
looking so much alike, all from different U-boats and Commanders? No way. Sorry, its fake.

Please compare the "U13" on your box to the "U12" on the back of the watch case.

Nice looking vintage Omega watch:



And then the "Silly looking U-boat" strikes again:



I actually started sending PM´s to people bidding on his watches or cases on Ebay, but the guy now has "Bidder ID hidden"

Hope these reply of mine prevents some collectors to be burnt on fake stuff.

Regards

Hinrik

this junk has nothing to do with my stop watch case . It came directly from the veteran who brought it back . The stuff you show in fact has nothing close to the quality age patina of my piece . your attack on me and my item for what ever your reasons is out of line and despite your PM I think you could have handled your attack a bit more humanely
Also it would appear this stuff may be copied of this site from my item

Actually, all these cases started coming out about 2 years ago, or about 6 months prior to the initial post. A lot of them.

I would do a search before you beat this guys head in for pointing out the market.

This junk as you put it, looks EXACTLY the same as your box. Excactly the same eagle, same style of Uboat. You talk about attack...I thought it was the point of this website to share information. Did I not do that? Did I not provide number of photos and links to prove my point?

Does it not please you when you can share information to fellow collectors to prevent them being taken? I do, that is why I posted this. I have not posted here for a long time. I thought it was turning into a boring big argument, people banned etc. Now I post in the attempt to help out a fellow collector, and I get attacked. I think you are blinded by the fact that this came from a Veteran.

Do Veterans never say incorrect things? Do they not forget? I saw an identical box to yours for sale on a website, and I thought, damm, someone will get burnt. I bought a nice 3R item some time ago. Seller stated it was 100% original, Veteran aquired, bla bla. Later through a forum like this, I was told by a number of advaned collectors, that this item was fake. I confronted the seller, and then he admited he got this from a Veteran who was also a dealer. So just by passing throught the hands of a Veteran, this item had become "Veteran Aquired"

Since this is the welcome I get, coming back to this site, I wil say goodbye for good. Thanks to all the nice people that have helped me in the past.

Cheers

Well Hinrik if you maybe learn some manners you might be given some leeway here Even though your info is creditble it comes across as an attack on me and that is where the line in the sand is drawn. TRY BEING a bit more diplomatic next time where ever you surface next.
As for the item in question I agree with the evidence it has to part of this scammers junk lot much to my dismay and feel for the vet who had to put this in his war chest just to say he had something.

PAUL

Sorry this thread went unnoticed by me. There were some harsh words. Let's end it on good terms.

--dj--Joe

Hinrik

Thanks for your informative overview regarding another bunch of phony junk that has infiltrated the market.

I saw nothing whatsoever that can be remotely construed as a personal attack, or unmannerly.
You took a negative opinion on your box as a complete assault on you, and that is just plain wrong.

There is no way to sugar coat telling someone the item they have is no good.
Hinrik has presented some compelling evidence without emotion, as per forum rules - And I think it is up to you to prove him wrong, and I agree that the fact that it came from a vet and patina alone do not make it genuine, that is not evidence of anything, very circumstantial at best. Scammers have been making very good progress with artificial aging in many areas, including militaria.
Another example would be the rash of "monster toned" coins cropping up on ebay, as a nicely toned coin that is worth $25 can sell for $100's.
Those fake TR metal cigarette containers, invariably with a grinning skull' also look "old".
I'm not saying if its fake or not, I'm not qualified to say. All I can say is that an authentic looking patina can be artificially duplicated, and is only part of the picture in any case.

Are there any known authentic designs which this can be compared with ? Have the Germans ever been known to put those stylized U-boats on anything?

Dear all,

It was never my intention to insult or disrespect Paul. As a U-boat item collector, I am constantly checking Ebay and other sites on what is available or being offered. I knew straight away that this came from this Bulgarian fraudster, as I have seen his junk being offered in the past years. But I do agree with Paul, that could of been more diplomatic in voicing my view / opinion on this item. Point well taken.

Regarding the applied insignia, then as I have said this eagle does not look like anything KM related and the U-boat does not resemble any known 3rd R. Uboat. The most common boat was the type VIIC and this looks nothing like it. But be warned, this fraudster has also applied other looking U-boats and eagles to his junk! The only U-boat, which looks like the original WWII type, is the small one man "Biber" U-boat. I have seen that faked on his items.

One point on the patina, and again, this is not meant as an attack, but for informational purposes for other collectors. If this was a box with insigina soldered on some 70 years ago, it is safe to assume that the box was new at that time. In my opinion, there would then not any discoloration around the applied insignia.

Note in the photo below, the discoloration in the area about 3-4mm out from the insignia, the "U 13" in particular. In order to get a good bond when soldering, area must be clean and flux must be used on the tin wire. Since there is an obvious discoloration there, its a "red flag" Also the style of insigna is a "red flag"

In my opinion, the fraudster might of have taken and older box, already with aging patina to use. He would then have to clean the area before soldering his junk on, leaving the discoloration which can be seen clearly in the photo. Most likely, he then did some aging tricks to the box.



If this information can prevent even a single collector in the future, against being burnt on a fake, then I am happy.

Sorry again Paul. Your point will be taken.

Regards

yes FRIENDS thanks for setting this straight JOB WELL DONE

paul

Here is one from "U-42" being offered on Ebay, for the meer sum of $5000........Thank god, only 12 hours remaining and no bidders.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WWII-Vintage-Compass_W0QQitemZ22030..._trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Wow, only $5,000 ... I'll take 2 !

Seriously speaking;

Normally these fakes are coming from Bulgaria. But I have seen a "guy" or user on ebay from UK also selling them. I suspect they are woking together, but have no proof to that.


5000$ hummmmm even if this was the pesonal spiton of Admiral Dönitzs. = this money? crap = fake = **** off

I sent the seller a text,

Stating I was willig to file charges against him for fraud if he actually sold this as "WWII original"

Regardsd

This seller can easily be avoided, because he has "0" feedback. But be warned. My "Friend" in Bulgaria, had high feedback, due to his sales of fantastic East Europian art

I think this joker must be operating on the assumption that if he charges an astronomical price, then people will be more inclined to believe its a genuine, rare relic.
That plus his 0 fb, he has no doubt heard that you can sell almost anything on ebay for alot of $$$.
Once he starts eating the listing fees for shams like this, he may have to rethink his strategy.

Inredible now he is getting bolder and he must have buyers at these higher prices anyhow can't thank you enough and sort of glad we got this out there .

PAUL

As Hinrik has said these cases are all over ebayand Eastern European market stalls like a nasty rash ,they are not even fake they are made up ,and dont ever buy a so called ww2 German watch from the Ukraine .Rob

Or "ground dug" Stalingrad skull rings. I believe they have had more on sale at ebay than there were Germans fighting the battle.

Unfortunately, there are collectors of real German militaria who are bringing in these items and have flooded the small auctions all across southern Ontario..they know better, and are financing their own collections through sales of fantasy and fraudulent items..

One of the big giveaways is the DRL type eagle,and the same cases being auctioned or sold as suicide pill cases, Olympic souvenirs etc..