UBB.threads Forums Edged Weapons SS Dagger Forum Himmler Dagger, good or bad ?

Posting these for someone else , dagger from uncle and pictures are poor, some better ones to follow if needed he says. Have my doubts because of the motto being so poor ,..inscription so hard to see, and the rest ?

pic 4

Pic

pc 3

pic 5

The word Himmler seams to run uphill ?

The blade is facing the wrong direction when someone put it back together.

It's hard to say for sure. The hilt and scabbard appear to be okay. The big question is about the blade. Need a closeup of the trademark, including its placement on the blade. How are the crossguards marked internally? A closeup of the inscription, especially the signature, would also help.

This dagger does not look to be taken apart ever. Don't! Just give the experts closer pictures of the motto and inscription and the marking. Maker mark , Control mark under the cross guard (bottom) . Reason , looks to be untouch example. Thanks Joe Semen

Sorry to say this but your photos are not good enough to tell much of anything, Douglas. Get your friend to borrow a decent camera.


Dave

I own two himmlers and i had to look at himmler name neither seems to be on that angle that was mentioned but maybe the wax stencil was a bit off also the rune button does not seem just right . who knows maybe mine are fake and yours is real .I like anyway though.

Well yes , ... pictures are not good,I am aware of that . Will ask for special set pictures to show the mentioned important items on the dagger . Do not know if ever taken apart , why the blade in backwards, not factory done ?
Nickel fittings seam correct color , interesting to see better shot of the Motto . And to the Motto , well to mention in detail the letters that go over the top of the spine > seam to show narrowing in the etch that I could not see disappearing with better photos ? And is the first dot in the word Meine - the 'i' not too flat ?
Douglas

Comparison,

Douglas,

Those puctures don't say anything as I told you. They are not "not good" ... they are very bad and do not present any usable detail.

Besides, even better pictures are not going to tell you anything except "get a hands-on opinion".

I have said this a few time before, but, again, anyone who says they can give you a reading on one of these inscriptions - unless it is an obvious fake like an RZM marked dagger - is pulling your leg.

Dave

Yes Dave,
Have requested better pictures , have to wait .
Would be some rare thing to get a Himmler dagger that just was just laying around in a drawer all these years , as he claims .
And yes the other RZM Himmler Dagger that was posted , I saw right away as fake . Some are easy and most are difficult to determine .

Douglas,

Tell your friend to join and do his own talking. That would be best.

Dave

Hi all, the dagger in question belongs to me. I'm trying to get some better pictures will post when I do.

A little history about the dagger: This dagger was given to me by my Grandfather in 1983, he passed away in 1984. My GF took the dagger off of a dead SS. Whether or not he killed the SS, I was never told. I have held on to the dagger for all these years because in the past I had been told that it was worth only about $1000 and I had no interest in selling it for that price. I decided to just keep it and forget about selling it. Recently while showing it to some friends I was informed that the dagger may be worth quite a bit more. To date, I have been offered $12,500 cash for it and I'm wondering if it is possibly worth more than that. I will post better pics when I can take some.

Thanks for any help

LD

To be honest with you, even if it is authentic, it is a hell of a good price at $ 12,500 cash.
Condition is everything when buying an SS Himmler.
Top conditioned near mint SS Himmler will sell for about $ 15,000 USD and mint one's, anywhere between $ 15,000 USD and $ 20,000 USD.
Your's seems to be in an E to E+ condition and would normally sell for a maximum price of about $ 10,000 USD and even then, it would be a hard sell.
However, if it is fake...........well, it is worth nothing.
Hope to get better pics.
Tell me, have you got a dot "." above the letter "i", in the name Himmler ?

The "i" in Himmler has no dot above it.

LD

The inside of the bottom of the dagger has a "V" or upside-down "V" and an "R".

LD

Lester,

The missing dot on the letter "i" is a positive sign among many other features, but we would need a better pic of the inscription or else, it will be impossible to tell if the dagger is legit or not.
Based on those pics alone, I wouldn't touch it.

Les, you are probably seeing "A" and "R" on the insides of the guards. This is a known marking for these daggers. They are seen occasionally on "Eickhorn" daggers, which yours should be, "Eickhorn" being the only maker of "Himmler" daggers. There may or may not be a small number (0-9) on the underside of the lower guard. A large point in determining authenticity is the placement of the trademark on the blade. It should be a very short distance from the guard. As has already been said, better photos are needed. If you can get them, be sure to include one of the trademark and its relationship to the lower guard.

Hi, If someone offer you $12500.00 cash. I would suggest you take it. Patrice gave you a pretty good idea on dagger prices. Thanks Joe Semen

Other points of interest...the "V" inside the lower guard does not have a "-" in the middle of it, does this mean that it is not an "A"? And there are no numbers on the dagger, roman or otherwise. The "Carl Eickhorn Solingen" trademark with a squirrel in the middle is 4 to 5 millimeters from the top of the upper guard. The squirrel seems to be holding something but you can't tell what it is. Don't know if this helps.

LD

Lester :
Somehow that mark reminds me on this one . Does the mark in the guard look like this ?

Actually, the "V" is all by itself. Meaning, there are no circles or lines or anything, just the "V".

LD

The trademark placement sounds about right. The "V" is a mystery to me, but is not necessarily confirmation either way of authenticity. As noted earlier, these daggers are almost always, if not always, found with "AR" or "HE" internally marked guards, upper and lower. However, once in a great while, an unusual or "non-standard" marked guard, or one with no internal mark at all, will be found on early political daggers.

I still think these are "A R" crossguards with a light or bad strike. I've personally only observed either the A R or H E crossguards on Himmlers. Anything else would be suspect to me. If the owner can get a good closeup we can probably tell for sure.
Jim

Upon seeing the photo comparison posted, the first thing that I noticed was that the 'i' dot over 'Meine' part of the motto in the lower photo is closer to horizontal than the dot in the upper portion of the comparison. The lower one is the dagger in question correct? Well I checked both my SSs and found the angle of the i dot identical to the upper photo. Next I checked as many motto photos as I could find in my TW book. I found no i dots that were at a lower angle resembling the bottom photo of the comparison no matter what angle or perspective the TW book photos were taken at. Opinions?

Here's another shot of the moto.

Lester,
It may be just the angle the photo was taken
at. As was stated previously, good clear photos
are necessary in order to make a sound evaluation.
Is it possible to get some more photos of
the Himmler signature?